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Wojnarowski/Mannix: Celtics Should Blow It Up

 

After Monday’s nationally televised loss to the Thunder, the talk around the Celtics is focused on whether they should start the rebuild by dealing away some or all of Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett or stand pat and attempt another playoff run? We’ve got a poll up asking that very question.

In this NBC Sports video, guests Adrian Wojnarowski and Chris Mannix argue for going boom with the dynamite.

In a recent column at SI, Mannix was critical of Danny Ainge’s work building supporting casts around the big three over the last few years, particularly his work in the draft:

There have been opportunities to replenish the ranks. In 2008 the Celtics grabbed J.R Giddens (30th), passing on Mario Chalmers (34th), DeAndre Jordan (35th) and Luc Mbah a Moute (37th).

In 2010 the Celtics drafted Avery Bradley (19th), leaving Jordan Crawford (27th), Greivis Vasquez (28th) and Landry Fields (39th) in the pool.

Boston’s Big Three are not what they were in 2008. Yet they are being asked to carry a similar, if not larger, load. With Perkins gone, Garnett is being called upon to be a physical, inside presence that, frankly, he has never been. Allen is getting fewer open looks now that Perkins is setting bone-crunching screens for Durant in Oklahoma City. Rondo has assumed a bigger piece of the scoring burden but Boston’s offense still tends to stagnate when Pierce isn’t on the floor.

The Celtics are not on Chicago’s or Miami’s level this season and age has little to do with it. They could have held onto Perkins, paid him the going rate in the offseason ($9 million to $10 million a year might have done it) and kept the big, physical presence they now lack. They could have drafted better, could have given Rivers more reliable options in the first three quarters so Allen, Garnett and Pierce could be rested and ready for the fourth.

Your reactions, refutations and emotional outbursts in the comments section, please.

  • devontw

    Ainge need to make 2 big trades next month. Trade E.Moore,M.Daniels, & J.Johnson to Minnesota for A.Randolph. Trade Stimsma,Wilcox,Bradley,Dooling,Pavlovic, & 1st round pick to Houston for J.Flynn,T.Williams, & H.Thabeet. After the trade deadline Ainge need to sign R.Wallace,E.House, & A.Iverson for 1 year.

    • CelticsBIG3

      This trade sucked when you posted it yesterday and it still sucks today.

    • Tos

      Can we ban this guy?

    • janos

      sorry but give minus you for be stupid. if you trade minnesotas you have get love or rubiks, everybody know that. these player not the good one. DO not listen this one.

    • jimmy

      the only decent player here is williams stop posting this its just dumb

    • CG12

      But he added signing The Answer to this one, which makes it much better.

  • michaelmarlow

    Age has plenty to do with it. Especially in KG's case.

    • Jamie

      We all love KG, but he is clearly done. He actively moves away from the basket to get his shot off.

  • High Rollers

    I think Danny Ainge made up his mind in the spring/summer of 2010, when the C’s looked cooked (to all except myself) and missed enjoying the last laugh by mere minutes in Game 7. Then his own self-sabotage backfired in spring 2011 with the Perk trade. (I wonder how many times a day he tries to tell himself he’s a businessman. Give it up, DA! You’re all basketball love. Just admit it and enjoy it!) This of all years he seems (to me) the least likely to break up the core. Which means he’s probably at his desk right now, listening to the calls for Pierce, remembering where folks around the league were on Rondo, and finding who’s really available come Feb/Mar to help the Big Four and Co. finally have that last laugh.

  • Chris from Danvers

    Interesting insights. Chris Mannix, though a fine reporter, does not always have accurate insights into the Celtics. In fact, the past three years, he has been quite off. As for Adrian – WOW – enough said. Either way, their idea that it should be blow up is not that far off…in fact, if not in February, it sure will be in June.

    DA's mission to build a supporting cast actually has been far better than advertised. Additions of Shaq, Rasheed, Marquis, Delonte West, Nate Robinson, and so forth actually show a forward thinking process to supporting the cast. Any comments to the contrary are ignorant. Now, in the case of Shaq, he broke down quickly. In the chase of Rasheed, he didn't care any more. In the case of Marquis and Delonte, they kept getting hurt. But, all are the examples of quality individuals you would want as bench and role players. Even this year, the four big players he has brought in – Pietrus, Bass, Dooling, and Wilcox are solid. Many have even played starter's minutes in the past. That's what all teams want on a bench. What Danny cannot control is nature's toll – Shaq dissolving, Marquis hurt twice, Delonte's wrist, Rasheed being Rasheed, and so on.

    Danny's drafts are hit and miss – lots of hits, but several big misses. Bradley still seems like a miss, but he was once the country's top basketball talent, so no faulting him there. And Moore seems solid. So there is no need to worry there, either.

    DA and Doc have several plans. I think we're watching plan A right now. Unfortunately, it is year 5 of a three year plan. That tends to turn into what we see now. However, how quickly Plan A turns to plan B remains to be seen. The sooner the better? I'm not too sure about that.

    • Jamie

      Danny's drafts are mostly miss especially the last 5 years. Trading Marshon Brooks for Johnson that only gets in garbage time? harangody, Bradley, Semih, Giddens, Hudson, Gerald Green. Danny's last good draft was 07 turning Jeff Green in part into Ray Allen and the 04 picks.

      If there's anyone in the draft with the last name Green….DA drafts them (3 since 2005)

    • KEN YOUNG

      nice column chris — I totally agree with you —

  • srb

    I love this guy devontw who keeps arguing for the team to somehow get Thabeet. Also I love how he suggests trading away about 8-10 players and getting 3 in return.

    • CelticsBIG3

      Oh it wasn't totally the same crap, he suggested we sign not just one bum (Rasheed), but two today (Allen Iverson)

  • http://twitter.com/michaeljavid @michaeljavid

    It's too soon for all this

  • janos

    Hi Haynes, is Janos
    You got best me Thunders game predict, I really think CELTICS win but guess that why you write and I just reading.

    For future team plan, is tough one. best when team do a full suck and get #1 pick for makeover team, other way is get playoff and see how it goes? Not much good for team be bad but not a full suck. that is worry for my celtics.

    I agree my friend michealdavid above post wait bit more , ultimate best do full suck or do good playoff.

  • I_Love_Green

    Wait till the offseason. Two first rounders in a stacked draft, and a ton of cap space in a good free agency class. There is no reason we shouldn't just play out the year with these guys. We won't get anything really good in return.

  • skeeds

    I've been polite with all the arguments about blowing it up, since March 2010. But you know what? Enough is enough. F@$% all this. I'd rather we retire our legends, as OUR legends, have an awful year or two and rebuild through the lottery, instead of trading away this team's dignity for a shortcut to the playoffs. Who wants to remember the big 3 era as one that ended by showing the door to the players that brought this franchise back from oblivion?

    No no no. If Ainge is as badass a GM as he thinks he is, let's see what he can pull off in the offseason. He'll have more than 30 million to use as he pleases, 2 first round picks and an already committed superstar PG. What more could he ask for?

    • dslack

      Yes, good comment.

    • LACelticsFan

      Exactly Skeeds…there isnt anyone to trade for that is going to get us past Chicago or Miami, we had our turn it was sweet, now we go back to the drawing board and DEVELOP some talent, until some other talent wants to where the green and white. Plus with only 5(Pierce, Bradley, Johnson, Bass, Rondo) signed to next season he could find some pieces to fit better than the ones we currently have.

  • ripsonics

    I agree with I_Love_Green — there really is no point in blowing up the team now unless the deal is absolutely right.. and even if it is these three guys have done so much for the organization and the city of Boston, it really wouldn't be fair. they have changed the culture, won a championship, and made this team a winner again.

    Keep the team.. Sign two big free agents, resign ray with bird rights and if we get a legitimate big man next year in free agency, think about resigning KG if he wants to come back.

    This is the year that we were all dreading.. the year when the team was too old to compete.. they kept pushing it off and avoiding the inevitable. Lets enjoy the team for this year, and see what happens in free agency.

    Even if Miami wins (god forbid OKC – see my username) there will be a "*" by it due to the shortened season, so we can all enjoy that.

    Go C's

  • James Patrick

    Why the hell do you blow things up at this point?! We're not gonna get much better. We need to ride out the season. Hope for the best. The worry about it all in the Summer. I love our core.

  • skeeds

    amen.

    Go C's

  • Farhan

    Is there no such thing as loyalty in the NBA anymore. Pierce has been with the organization during the worst of times and yet now they might want to get rid of him. He showed loyalty to the Celtic organization, now it is time for the Celtic organization to show their loyalty to Paul Pierce.

    • NHBluesMan

      i don't think there's any proof that the C's are considering getting rid of Pierce… just because people are calling about him doesn't mean it's being considered.

  • W2.

    I love Paul Pierce. And I have been just trying to think of deals that might make sense. He is an LA guy I would never want to see Paul traded without consent. So what does anyone think about PP for Caron Butler and Eric Bledsoe. They get a hometown guy/champ/vet with playoff experience and we get a young piece and a good player who can come in and start. This would let us have a second five of Bledsoe, Dooling, Pietrus, Bass, and Steamer.

    There may need to be more parts to make it work. Any thoughts?

    • dslack

      Don't like it at all. Bledsoes are a dime a dozen, and Butler is 31 in a month.

  • CG12

    First off, nice misleading headline. Nowhere do they say the Cs should blow it up. They just say KG, PP, Ray, and Rondo need more help. Duh. Not a remotely controversial stance, I'm afraid.

    Second, the Cs shouldn't blow it up and won't blow it up. It is almost impossible to imagine a reasonable scenario where that happens. They aren't going to get anything worthwhile back in trading away Ray or KG for a rest-of-the-season rental. What could they possibly get for PP that would make sense this year (PP does NOT have a no trade clause)? It would need to be overwhelmingly awesome, and no GM with an ounce of sense would do that for a very good, but aging player. P is worth much more to the Cs than anyone else. They are going to ride it until the wheels fall off this year and then look to make some big moves in the off season. That has been the plan for years. Why would they ruin that by making panic trades during a year where – let's be honest – the team is very unlikely to be championship contender? Of course GMs are calling, why wouldn't they with the Cs record so awful. But that doesn't mean Danny is trying to trade anyone.

    Third, enough about the draft, too. Sure Danny failed to pick some guys who have turned out to be finds. A lot of other teams passed on them too. The Cs have been solid in the draft, getting some contributions from the late-in-the-round picks they have been making for the entire New Big 3 era. It would have been nice to hit at least one home run, but it just doesn't happen very often. These guys have all been marginal pro prospects. That's why they weren't picked in the lottery.

    • Ryan DeGama

      Re: "misleading" headline. You must have watched a different video than the one we posted.

      Woj says specifically re: blowing up, "I think Boston has to do that." Mannix then says they don't have any other alternative right now.

      • CG12

        my bad – I can't view the video. I just read the article and paid insufficient attention to your comment that they say it in the video. You are right, I am wrong.

    • Ray Ray for 3

      The only reason why we should be worried is because Danny Ainge is reckless, and have made bad dfraft picks and trades over the last 4 years. He might be trying to salvage his job by making some panic trade and splash. You are correct on why it shouldn't happen……but with Ainge, you never know. I read another article in regards to why it isn't the Celtics or Danny ainges fault that Rasheed wasn't interested, Marquis was hurt, Shaq didn't make it through the season, etc. Well, it is Ainges fault because he brought them onto the team. Do your homework. Rasheed's problems were well documented, so were Shaq's history of injuries. he gambled, we all lost. He shipped Big Perk out and tried to ship Rondo out. I'm sick of Ainge.Punk ass mo*&$%#er

  • tbunny

    I can't say whether the celtics should be "blown up" whatever that means. But it is way way too early for that. I'll never forget how the celtics were absolute garbage in the spring of 2010. Then they took the Lakers to 7 in the finals. Different year and now the celtics have a gaping hole at 5, but still the eulogies are way premature. And panic trading Paul Pierce seems pretty dumb.

    You can defend Ainge's moves. Trading Perkins will forever be debated but Ainge's thinking wasn't stupid. He may have been wrong, but he tried to get serious future value from a player that he'd already determined they couldn't keep. That said, he's obviously failed to get a viable replacement. This team is not going far with KG trying to be a 5. I still don't get why Ainge dumped Semih Erden for nothing. I thought Erden was fitting in pretty well.

  • Batman

    I forgot when all you have are low draft picks you should become omniescient and only take the right players

    LOL at Mario Chalmers, Luc Moute, Jordan Crawford, Grevis Vasquez, and Landry fields becoming our saviors right now

  • NHBluesMan

    regarding the draft comments: alot of those guys are only doing good right now because they're getting playing time… whose to say that they'd have any difference with a coach (Doc) who is known to keep his rookies glued to the bench? If we had taken Fields over Bradley, then Fields would probably be sitting on the bench and Bradley might've gotten playing time with NYK, and the same argument applies- "what was Danny thinking?!'

    it's kindof a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation…

    and in regards to blowing it up, i don't think it'll happen, unless we get legitimately good talent back… honestly, i'd love to see someone like Ibaka come to the C's, but once again, probably not gonna happen.

    I think the C's just need to sit tight, make afew adjustments on rotation (i like the Pierce as the 6th man idea) and try to get healthy. We do have good pieces, it's just a matter of using them

  • Anthony

    Don't really understand Chris Mannix's argument about Celts/ DA not drafting well and how they need to do better job like OKC and SA. Given Celts' low draft picks the past couple of years, there isnt exactly much of a selection. 28 other teams also passed Chalmers, Deandre Jordan, Jordan Crawford, Grevis Vasquez and Landry Fields. And these can be listed at best as decent players. Deandre is still very raw with no offense skills.

    Jury is still out on JJJ, Etwaun, and Bradley. Erden and Harangody are at least serviceable.
    Celts have drafted Ryan Gomes, Al Jefferson, Delonte West, Tony Allen, Dahntay Jones, Joe Johnson and got the draft rights to Rondo, Perkins, and Big Baby.

    It's unfortunate that the Celts have been cursed more than any other team in the NBA.
    -Jeff Green surgery. How good would the Celt's bench be with him?
    -Missed out on Oden/ Durant picks. Worse possible case scenario in the lottery happened again. Blowing up the Celts wouldnt even be a discussion.
    -Passing of Reggie Lewis. He wasnt even at his prime yet.
    -Missed out on Tim Duncan. Worse possible case scenario for Celts in the lottery happened.
    -Passing of Len Bias. He was not only supposed to be the savior but wouldve prolonged Bird/McHale careers.

    With exception to Jeff Green, the other four scenarios involved superstar/ potential franchise changing players. Guess my point is loyalty over gambling to try and make this team a contender. I just cant see any trades that put them in better position than the Bulls or Heat. Keep Pierce, Ray, KG, and Bass. Everyone else is expendable. A little torn about Rondo but he's the only one that we can get reasonable trade value back for.

    If they lose with the Big 3, so be it. I'll still be a Celtics fan.

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