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On Von Wafer And the C’s Off-Season

 

Von Wafer is a gamble, which is fine, because you can afford to gamble at the end of the rotation. And he represents the sort of gamble the Celtics probably had to take in order to realistically contend for a championship next season. He’s young, he’s an athlete and he’s an offense-first scorer who can create points from all over the floor when nothing else is working. Signing Wafer and Nate Robinson—and quibbling over a third year for Tony Allen—shows that the Celtics understand their offense let them down last season.

But, man, is Wafer a gamble.

Wafer has been around the NBA for a half-decade, but he comes into the 2011 season as nearly the equivalent of a second-year player. Prior to his solid 2009 season for Houston, Wafer had taken exactly 100 shots in bits of three prior NBA seasons. Antoine Walker would have jacked that many in four games in 2000. During the 2009 playoffs, Rick Adelman, Houston’s coach, kicked Wafer out of a game against the Lakers after Wafer threw a mini-fit over playing time. Kicked him out of a playoff game.

Wafer left the NBA for the big money (about $5 million per season) at Olympiakos, the Greek powerhouse, but they quickly decided they wanted no part of him. He shot below 40 percent in Europe and clashed with the Olympiakos coaching staff, so they cut him before 2009 was out.

And so there is almost no record from which we can judge Wafer, and the little record that exists is dotted with attitude flare-ups and a mysterious failed physical last season. It’s strange for a team that came within a few minutes of winning the NBA title to sign an almost unknown commodity for a potentially crucial back-up role.

But Wafer will help if he can be a calmer version of the player who shot 45 percent overall and 39 percent from deep for Houston. Eddie House can shoot threes. Tony Allen can attack the rim and post up smaller guys. Wafer can do both. In 2009, he took just as many shots at the rim as he did from three-point range (about 2.5 per game), and finished those shots at the rim 60 percent of the time—a league average mark for a guard. (League average is wonderful for a back-up). He hit long twos at a solid clip and flashed a usable mid-range game.

In other words: He can score from anywhere on the court. He won’t always do it efficiently or within the flow, but there isn’t a spot from which he is a total non-threat.

His passing numbers in 2009 were dismal, but he turned the ball over on fewer than 10 percent of the possessions on which he tried to do something with it—an outstanding mark for a guy who looks for his shot so often, and a lower mark than every Celtic regular last season other than Rasheed Wallace. (And Sheed wasn’t exactly driving and dishing in 2010).

With Wafer and Jermaine O’Neal on board—and with TA in Memphis, no longer being “overshadowed”—the Celtics have a chance to cut their team turnover rate from league-worst to league-average. That would help, considering Boston’s offense slipped to 15th in points per possession last season and couldn’t create enough decent shots with the championship on the line.

And that’s what the Wafer and Robinson signings are about—offense. The 2009 Rockets scored more with Wafer on the court, and Neil Paine at Basketball-Reference just got through a study that showed (among many other things) Nate Robinson scored more efficiently against elite defensive teams than almost any player in the league.

These guys don’t fit into the narrative of the KG/Thibodeau-era Celtics. They think about their offense first, and they can be flaky about their defense. Signing guys like this shows both an understanding of the team’s flaws and a belief that almost all NBA-level athletes can become good defenders in the right system. The 2009 Rockets allowed about two more points per 100 possessions with Wafer on the floor, but Wafer’s direct head-to-head counterparts—usually the other team’s two guard—produced well below their average levels.

Does this mean Wafer was a good individual defender but a poor team defender? I have no idea, and the sample size is probably too small to tell us anything real. But Wafer’s 6’5”, he’s an athlete, and guys like that have a habit of turning into solid defenders on well-coached teams that stress defense above all else. He played a bit of small forward for the Rockets, meaning he might be able to fill that spot in a pinch more readily than a string bean such as Rudy Fernandez.

The Wafer signing does not necessarily kill the Fernandez trade talks, though it makes a deal with Portland less likely. The C’s now have 12 players ready to go for next season (not including Sheed), and Luke Harangody will soon make 13, the minimum number of required roster players. But with one of those 13 players (Perk) out until February, I’d be shocked if the C’s didn’t sign a 14th player and would not be surprised at all to see them go with the maximum 15. That leaves room for a wing and a big guy, and if they can still nab Fernandez without surrendering more than a first-rounder, they should jump at the chance.

But Wafer provides insurance if they can’t swing a Rudy deal. There were safer bets out there—Damien Wilkins, Antoine Wright, the Graham brothers. Signing Wafer is a higher-risk, higher-reward move. He might shoot 35 percent and pout his way to the end of the bench, but if things go well, we could see Doc turn to him for big playoff minutes during a sequence when the veteran-heavy offense is going to hell.

And if you think about it, Doc was never consistently comfortable doing that with House, Robinson or TA. He fell in and out of love with each of them as a post-season bench spark, but he has yet to fully trust any of them, and they’ve all spent time rotting on the bench as the starters sputtered.

Will Wafer gain that trust? I don’t know, but it’s worth a veteran’s minimum contract to find out, even if he ends up only as a regular-season minutes-sopper for Pierce and Ray Allen.

  • Josh A

    @Zach, this should be interesting

  • Chris O.

    I am assuming Erden is guaranteed? If not I still have no idea how people are getting to 12 spots without Rasheed.

  • Chris O.

    Or did Harangody sign/you are including him?

  • http://www.celticshub.com Zach Lowe

    Erden is guaranteed.

  • http://Gmx.com Zachary Heffernan

    Who is Erden?

  • dont_drink_the_koolaid

    wow. didn’t know he was 6’5″….i thought he was a smaller combo guard. if the guy can’t be a stopper with his physical tools, its just effort.

    their is no risk in this move. attitude will not be tolerated by this vet squad and he knows if he screws this up its NBA career over. he has HUGE incentive to succeed. if he does disrupt, he’s gone and all it’ll have cost the Cs was a mil. definitely: “it’s worth a veteran’s minimum contract to find out”. the more i think about it, i prefer this to rudy and we didn’t have to give up anything.

  • kyle

    2008 final pick

  • http://Gmx.com Zachary Heffernan

    1.Rajon Rondo
    2.Paul Pierce
    3.Kevin Garnett
    4.Ray Allen
    5.Kendrick Perkins
    6.Nate Robinson
    7.Marquis Daniels
    8.Big Baby
    9.Avery Bradley
    10.Tony Gaffney
    11.Oliver Lafayette
    12.Jermaine O’Neal

    Havent signed Luke Harangody- probobaly will trade Rasheed Wallace- And I’m not sure about Semih Erden

  • http://www.celticshub.com Zach Lowe

    GAffney and Lafayette do not have guaranteed deals and likely won’t make the team.

    Erden is guaranteed and will make the team.

  • Jay P

    @dont_drink

    Agree with you for the most part, but it’ll cost the team 2mil. Luxury tax, not that 2mil is even that big of a deal really.

    I’m not sold on him, his attitude is a serious problem, he got kicked out of a playoff game in 2009 for bitching about minutes. He was getting 19minutes a game that season. I doubt he’ll even get 19 minutes a game in Boston, so if he was bitching then, what will change now?

    I dunno, maybe he’s got his head on straight now, and realizes if he wants to make it in this league he’s just going to have to shut up, work hard, and do his job. But ya, there’s definitely some high-reward side here, he’s shown a great ability to score, and if he can learn the system and improve defensively, he could be really great off the bench.

    We’ll see what happens, but I still wanted Rudy.

  • http://Gmx.com Zachary Heffernan

    1.Rajon Rondo
    2.Paul Pierce
    3.Kevin Garnett
    4.Ray Allen
    5.Kendrick Perkins
    6.Nate Robinson
    7.Marquis Daniels
    8.Big Baby
    9.Avery Bradley
    10.Semih Erden
    11.Jermaine O’Neal

    Havent signed Luke Harangody- probobaly will trade Rasheed Wallace- Oliver Lafayette and Tony Gaffney do not have guaranteed deals– ya were is the 12 guy?

  • NHBluesMan

    @Zachary, we already signed Erden, he’s guaranteed.

  • http://Gmx.com Zachary Heffernan

    NHBluesMan, thats why I put him on the list

  • Josh A

    @Zach, Will Harangody make the rotation

  • http://www.celticshub.com Zach Lowe

    His name is Von Wafer. The guy this entire post is about.

  • http://www.celticshub.com Zach Lowe

    Let’s try it again, for clarity:
    1 Rondo
    2) KG
    3 Ray
    4 Pierce
    5 Perk
    6 Nate
    7 Wafer
    8 Erden
    9 Bradley
    10 Daniels
    11 Big Baby
    12 Jermaine O’Neal

  • Josh A

    @ZACH, will harangody make the team

  • Brian B

    Von Wafer is the twelfth man guys

  • Tom

    Is Daniels going to be the only guy who can backup Pierce at the #3? It looks like we don’t have anyone else who can guard the Lebron or Carmelo type other than Daniels and Pierce. What happen when he goes down?

    I also think Doc will run the Rondo/Donkey line up more this year with the way the bench is. What do you guys think?

    Wafer does nothing for me….

  • Joe

    Any news on Scal? Is he retiring or becoming an assistant coach anywhere? We could do worse than sign him for the 14th spot.

  • dreik

    now we just need a another wing Rudy or D-West

  • Perry

    If anyone missed Harangody in Orlando you will like what you see from him come fall. He’s been compared to Scal, but after you get past the physical traits it ends there. This kid will make the team. He has the long range game for sure, but he’s got a cute turnaround from 10-15, and he’s hard nosed like Powe. I think he’s athletic enough to find ways to score that Scal or Bonner never could. That being said he’ll likely be shuttled to Maine if for anything else just to keep his skills sharp.

    I expect the same treatment where Erden is concerned. It looked to me like he had a hard time adjusting to the speed of the game, and that was against summer league players.

    As long as we’re talking about the end of the bench, it will be interesting to watch Sims compete since he can fill it up as well. I know Wafer’s contract is guaranteed, but I do not base my judgments on stats unless I watch the player in action and learn how he handles game pressure. So Zach is right about him being a gamble, but it’s low risk.

    By the way, Portland will consider a #1 for Rudy, and the Bulls look to be out of the running. Let’s also remember Perk, and probably Erden (phantom injury) will be in street clothes when the season starts. Therefore the roster is technically at 10 with Harangody likely signing by Monday.

    Celts will have four players under contract with a cumulative sum of about $3.5k to move in and out of the d-league this season, and they’ll be in pretty good shape where extra bodies are a concern just in case of injuries. Factor that with all the incoming contracts under 2 years, and you have to give Danny credit … not real sexy moves … but sound financial decisions.

  • jcbhan

    sounds like we’ve got 2 seats open on the bench for opening day. Erden and Gody will be suiting up for the red claws in october, and perk will be the 15th dude sitting out.

    One of those seats is going to a big, amazingly it could be Shaq although my preference is Kwame.

    The Rudy dream is dying folks, deal with it. The “other” wing spot will prob be open heading into training camp and the cream that rises to the top will get it. Gaffney and Laffayette probably have the lead on that, but maybe Sims or Janning will surprise.

  • celticsfan4ever

    I was looking at a Von Wafer highlight on youtube and on the side I saw one of Antoine Walker. Of course, I watched it. That dude was a player. Although he is now bankrupt, jacked up 3′s, when it came down to it, Antoine Walker in his prime was very hard to defend because of his unique playing style. Just wanted to throw this out there because of the Walker jab.

  • K.C.

    Celtics need to make that sign and trade for Shaq, who really knows if Perk will even be ready by the all-star break. At least Shaq could match up with D. Howard and the Laker trees.

  • I love Green

    I am never worried about attitude problems with this team. In a lockerroom of KG, Pierce, Rondo, Ray, and Perk he can’t even think about acting up.

  • http://celticshub Steve

    I am soooo disappointed with the wafer signing, honestly if we got rudy instead i think we would have a better chance at getting back to where we wanna be…that being said rudy wouldnt be the difference maker but he can back paul/ray maybe not as well against the wades n lebrons but hes young althletic more upside than down has good ups, can pass, can shoot 3′s n midrange and can take it to the cup…also i think him and rondo would gave many years together rudy runs the floor well!

  • Jay P

    @Steve

    All the things you just said about Rudy, Wafer also did extremely well for Houston.

    Both are headcases, both bitched about playing time. And Wafer comes at about 1/5th the price of Rudy, since Portlands wants multiple draft picks.

    So…? Uh, what you talking about?

  • Jon

    The difference maker is shaq… What are we waiting for??? Are there any other contenders who want him? I assume the lakers and the heat do not want him and I doubt the magic would take him so where else could he go?

  • Perry

    @Steve

    I’ve been doing some thinking since last night, and there is nothing out there which would indicate that Fernandez is off the table. The Bulls have Korver and Brewer, and are losing interest. The main competition could be from the Knicks who have more than a #1 to offer. Wafer, unproven in the NBA for more than a year, may only be scoring insurance as Finley was last season.

    Reports also say Shaq and Kwamme are still being considered. Both are having a hard time securing more than the veteran minimum.

    Danny is letting the market wash itself out. I remind everyone that tomorrow will be the three year anniversary of KG signing. Different set of circumstances for sure, but sometimes good things come to those who wait. Shaq for the veteran minimum would be a blessing and that Sheed s/t for Shaq and Parker, or Moon could be on the table.

  • Luiyo

    PG – Rondo, Robinson, Bradley
    SG – Allen, *Fernandez, Wafer
    SF – Pierce, Daniels
    PF – Garnett, Davis, *Harangody
    C – Perkins, J. O’neal, *S. O’neal

    *If we can get this 3 guys I think we are set, not counting if Wallace decides to come back, that will make us even better (even if he only decides to play in the playoffs)

    I DON’T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT THIS TEAM LOOKS VERY GOOD AND DEEP!!!

  • http://celticshub.com/?gcid=C12289x022&gtkw=Celtics+Hub The Ego

    After 2008, Posey left and 2-3 years have gone by and still not a REAL 3 to back up Pierce…..what happens if he gets injured? We have Absolutelly no chance of competing if we have 6-4 or 6-5 guys playing a position that needs at least a 6-7 guy.
    Why can’t Danny bring a 3, a real 3 ?
    What if Pierce goes down after the trade dead line?
    We are contenders, we need a roster that shows that.
    Wafer, Rudy*, Marquis…..good back-ups for Ray, now get at least one for Pierce.

  • Jeff

    @ Chris O

    Yes Erden is guaranteed. He signed a rookie leve deal for around $430,000

  • I love Green

    Von Wafer’s tweet last night:

    “Thank u god thank u so so so so much ur so good to me yes thank u mr ainge thank u coach rivers thank u thank u thank thank u all”

  • Luiyo

    @The Ego

    You’re absolutely right about a Pierce backup! He needs one ASAP

  • I love Green

    And about getting Pierce a backup, who do you think we can get? Who can be effective for 10-15 minutes a game? I have someone in mind, but it’s unlikely. James Posey. New Orleans wants to keep Chris Paul, and to do that they need to prove they’re trying to contend.

    So trading away Sheed’s contract and some picks for Posey wouldn’t make much sense for them. If this was a few weeks ago, it could be possible.

  • Jay P

    Daniels can play the 3 pretty well.

    Forget last season, it was an anomaly. If he stays healthy (big if) he’s more than capable of spelling Paul for decent minutes.

  • chief

    Baby
    Erdin
    Wafer
    Daniels
    Robinson
    Bradley
    *Perks

    That’s 12 players under contract. Gody will get a deal. That’s 13. Sims and JAnnign have received invites. That’s 15 players heading into camp. PLus Layfayette and Gafney who don’t have deals give us 17 players…

    Ainge is done until camp starts. He will continue to shop Sheed and possibly replace Sims and Janning but we are pretty much done.

  • http://celticshub.com/?gcid=C12289x022&gtkw=Celtics+Hub The Ego

    @ Jay P
    Marquis is 6-6 and never befor coming to Boston played the 3. He was a shooting guard with good vision and passing skills that Dallas tried as a point guard. His shooting is bad, plus if we are contenders we should look at taking advantages on our oponents not the other way around. Posey is 6-8 can defend the 2-3 and 4, he is a reliable 3 point shooter, a good passer, selfish, etc. i’m not saying danny should have kept him , my point is that the managent has had 3 years to find someone like that and has not delivered. Even try a young unproven guy, perhaps Harangoudy can play the 3 ? But if the opposition is bringing Odom and Barnes from the bench and we want to compete against them, well……

  • http://www.celticshub.com Zach Lowe

    @TheEgo:

    Dead wrong. Daniels, in fact, played small forward more than any other position in Indiana in 2009:

    http://www.82games.com/0809/08IND6.HTM#bypos

  • Josh A

    Hey Guys, I will be posting a new blog, check back for further details

  • Chris O.

    Zach Lowe says:
    July 30, 2010 at 10:06 am
    Let’s try it again, for clarity:
    1 Rondo
    2) KG
    3 Ray
    4 Pierce
    5 Perk
    6 Nate
    7 Wafer
    8 Erden
    9 Bradley
    10 Daniels
    11 Big Baby
    12 Jermaine O’Neal

    Haha thanks Zach, I had all of them but Erden. I can’t believe he is guaranteed. I still think we could get Shaq and Jamario and sign Harangody for the full 15. Or possibly sign Shaq, Harangody, and have Gaffney make the team.

  • Jay P

    @Chris O

    How exactly do you expect to get Shaq and Jamario?

    It’s not like Jamario has some kinda of contract that Cleveland is dieing to shed and save money…

    So you think Cleveland is going to give up a great, cheap, incredibly useful wing player so that they can save what… the 2.6mil he’s due? Come on…

  • http://www.truecloud.com Dave

    @ Chris O…following on to what Jay P said.

    Cleveland is not motivated to come to the bargaining table with the Celtics to discuss a sign and trade of a player they have already taken off their books.

    They aren’t motivated to help the team that just knocked them out of the playoffs and destroyed a generation of hopes and dreams for the franchise along with it.

    If you think that Cleveland will be good citizens and help the Celtics wih their depth problems at Center and small forward and in so doing help them get back to the NBA Finals, then you haven’t thought this through.

    The Celtics may get Shaq but it will be a cold day in hell when Cleveland assists with that.

    As for Rudy, the Blazers can bide their time just as easily as anyone else and they should. There’s no pressure to lose a $1.2M contract on a mid to late first round draft pick. They can get that deal anytime.

    A better chance is to wait until the season starts to unfold and teams like the Celtics start to feel a little more urgency to shore up that hole.

    Then the Blazers might actually persuade them to offer some real value in return for Fernandez. Right now they’d just want to stealing him for a song.

  • Sophomore

    @Perry – I think you’re right that Danny’s not done if he can help it. We were asking ourselves whether Wafer was the backup 2, and he is, but that doesn’t mean Danny’s giving up on Rudy or – who knows – maybe someone else he might trade for.

    On Harangody, I hope you’re right but I have my doubts. In particular, in the two games I watched he looked awfully weak on defense. Plenty of desire, but bad footwork, and badly overmatched against both 3s and 4s. Offense was OK but not great. His jump shot was effective, but I didn’t see much ability to create shot or operate inside.

  • Sophomore

    @Dave – right. Cleveland might do the S and T if we threw in an asset that gave them something for doing the deal. But anything they would want we wouldn’t want to give them.

  • http://celticshub.com/?gcid=C12289x022&gtkw=Celtics+Hub The Ego

    @ Zach Lowe

    Indiana played small ball and they have done pretty bad in the past couple of years, no?
    Maybe he can play small forward but, again can he match favorably?
    He is a good player and I would love for him to prove me wrong, but if I’m going to war I’ll rather have the bigger guns.
    I know, easier said than done.

  • http://www.celticshub.com Zach Lowe

    @Ego: your concerns are legit, but the notion that he has never played SF is wrong.

  • http://celticshub.com/?gcid=C12289x022&gtkw=Celtics+Hub The Ego

    @ Dave
    The Cavs main motivation right now is problably hurt LBJ, so maybe, maybe they’ll help us.

  • Josh A

    @Zach, the thing is, the Pacers did better when Daniels was at SG

  • Jay P

    @The Ego

    How many big SFs are in the league though really?

    The like of Lebron James at 6’8 260 or whatever he is, is a freak. Most SFs aren’t that big or strong. And Daniels is more than capable of matching most SFs in the league.

    It’s not ideal obviously, and I’m not arguing with you that it’d be great to see a Posey or Battier type at 6’8 with long arms to defend that position. But, that’s just not going to happen. And honestly, even if NO would bite on shedding salary by moving Posey for Sheed’s contract, adding a big man is a far greater need right now than Posey would be.

    Now if we could get Battier instead, well that’d be different. But that’s just not going to happen.

  • http://celticshub.com/?gcid=C12289x022&gtkw=Celtics+Hub The Ego

    By the way they have a player named Jawad williams, 6-9, 220. i saw him a couple of times and he is the kind of player, I think Celtics management has not tried to develop. He was not given much chance in CLE either but I did catch him on a couple of games and he is indeed an interesting prospect.

  • http://celticshub.com/?gcid=C12289x022&gtkw=Celtics+Hub The Ego

    Zach Lowe says:
    July 30, 2010 at 4:18 pm
    @Ego: your concerns are legit, but the notion that he has never played SF is wrong.
    Ok I grant you that. But then Magic Johnson played Center also….
    And Garnett player small forward and 2 guard at Minn…
    Playing somebody out of position should’nt be something you plan ahead of a season.
    I like Von Wafer pick , by the way: ” Eddie House can shoot threes. Tony Allen can attack the rim and post up smaller guys. Wafer can do both”
    And I remember him playing solid D.

  • http://freeiphone4g4u.blogspot.com/ Russell Shrawder

    Hey, i am really excited :) i just got my brand new IPhone 4G for FREE lol!. I wasnt sure it would work but it pulled through. I followed the guide on Free IPhone 4G and i just thought ide share it! Dont forget to tell your friends

  • Chris O.

    “Jay P says:
    July 30, 2010 at 1:17 pm
    @Steve

    All the things you just said about Rudy, Wafer also did extremely well for Houston.

    Both are headcases, both bitched about playing time. And Wafer comes at about 1/5th the price of Rudy, since Portlands wants multiple draft picks.

    So…? Uh, what you talking about?”

    HAHA hilarious Jay P and true, I was thinking the same thing.

  • http://www.truecloud.com Dave

    @Ego…Still unlikely IMO but if the Celtics had a quality asset to offer Cleveland in return for their trouble, Then they just might listen, but the Celtics don’t have any surplus of quality assets to offer them right now.

    The quality assets the Celtics have they need to keep if they’re going to make another similar run to the finals next season.

  • Jay P

    @Russell Shrawder

    Please kill yourself. Are spam bots getting more sophisticated, or are people actually taking the time to post these scams themselves?

  • Chris O.

    @ Jay P….I’m not sure but either way it is annoying and concerning.

  • Josh A

    @Jay p. haha this is too funny

  • jcbhan

    why not have Shaq sign with Portland and then package Shaq and Rudy for Sheed’s contract?

  • Joe

    Sheed for Shaq and Anthony Parker and call it an offseason.

  • Chris O.

    @ Jcbhan – I don’t see that Shaq to Portland thing so we can get Rudy happening.

    @ Joe I would rather Sheed for Shaq and Jamario

    Jamario is a 5 years younger (30 to 35), 2 inches taller and I think would be a better overall fit at this point. Although I do not see Parker as a bad alternative.

  • Joe

    @Chris, I agree. Moon is the better player at this point. My thinking was that the Cavs are probably less inclined to trade Moon and Parker really has no use on Cleveland now.

  • Chris O.

    Good point Joe. I think Cleveland should just straight blow it up though. Would you be willing to include anything to get Jamario in a deal? A 2nd round pick? I just don’t wanter Parker to be next seasons Finley lol (even though he still looks a lot better).

  • Joe

    I’d even give a 1st rounder if I had too. This team has a 2 year window and a mid 20′s pick in a year isn’t going to be of much use in that window

  • Chris O.

    I’d be inclined to agree, go after it NOW.

  • Shooter

    First of all @Russell fuck off idiot,we don’t want your shitty IPhone alright.

    Like i said, not only does Wafer look like Artest’s brother he acts like him too.And Artest came out alright.
    @Joe a successful off season it would be too,if we got Shaq and Parker for Sheed.
    You could get away playing slightly undersized wing players,if they have strength,athleticism and quick hands.Wafer should be able to hold his own playing the 2,3 if Doc decides to go that route.

  • Nobody is better than Jordan

    Von Waaaaaaaferrrrr!
    From a Rockets fan, you guys are lucky to get Wafer.
    I don’t know what his health problems were last season, but he must have showed something to convince them he’s worth the gamble. He clashed with Adelman in the playoff run against LA, and I think that was one of the reasons for his initial departure – so it seems he might be a head case – I mean, Artest was practically his best bud when they played in Houston if that’s any indication of the type of court-warrior mentality they shared. I think that if Doc was able to mold Robinson and get him to stay intense and playing well, then they’ll be able to do the same with Wafer.

  • Shooter

    Moon or Parker,i would prefer Moon he’s the better player, but, are Cleveland willing to give him up.

  • Shooter

    Ya i cannot believe Erden is guarnateed.He better not be getting playing time.

    I’m alright with Quis and/or Wafer rotating in at the 3.

  • Larry Byrd

    This may be off topic, but way hasn’t Kevin Garnett voluntered to take a pay cut? Pierce and Allen both took less money. He gets paid almost more then anyone in the league and is only a top thirty palyer at best.

  • Josh A

    I think Shaq will become a Celtics in the next 48 hours. Let’s see.

  • JP

    KG wont take less money right now because he has a contract that hasn’t yet expired, PP and Ray both had expiring deals so they took a little less money, but I think they are paid appropriately for what they are at this point in their careers. Furthermore, taking less money wouldn’t even help the C’s that much because they are so far over the cap anyway, it wouldnt help them sign anyone. Lastly, would you want to lose out on 22 million, or however much KG is making?

  • Sophomore

    Jeebus. If somebody else writes in that we should get Moon and Shaq for Sheed’s expiring I’m going to lose it.

    Why on earth would Cleveland do that? Shaq’s off their books right now. They get exactly nothing from that part of the deal. They also lose Moon, one of their rotation players who’s under contract for a reasonably 2.75M. And they get back? The chance to dump Moon’s salary??? Oh yes. While helping a conference rival.

    They’re the Cavs, not Kahn’s T-wolves or a team GM’d by Chris Wallace. They’re not going to do this.

    This is getting to be like those South Park underwear gnomes.

    Step 1 – offer Sheed’s contract
    Step 2 – ?
    Step 3 – Profit!!

  • Shooter

    Yeah that s&t trade makes no sense for the Cavs.
    Why would they sign Shaq just to trade him and add a decent wing player to help us out.
    Still, you never know.

  • WhosYour2010NBAChampionshipDaddy?

    NBA TV is showing the 2010 Finals again, and game 6 is just a thing of beauty.

    God The Celtics just huffed the green dong in this one. So beautiful.

    Sigh.

    As you were….talking about your huge signing, right?

  • Hillcrestwildcat

    @anonymous jackass laker fan

    You obviously have no girlfriend, (or boyfriend?) no friends, no job and no life to be watching Game 6 of the Finals on a Friday night. And Game 6 of all games the most entertaining where 1, 2,5, and 7. Six was the most boring game of the series by far. You can’t even have no life and watch interesting highlights.

    I’d rib you more but I have better stuff I could be doing.

  • 15GREEN15

    lol . i hate lakers fans they so fake they hated matt barnes now they love him cuz hes on ya team like stupid band wagonerss . or no yhu shud whatch every game even ones we won and look at every BS call on celtics . then lakers will get a good foul call and they will jump up and down saying they didnt do anything . like in 5 mins c’s wud get 9 fouls on em . and then eevry 8 mins lakers will get one foul and flip out for no reason . celtics shuddda flipped out cuz all tha calls on them were BS . and if yhu notice if any call or shot was questionable they wud reveiw it for tha lakers ! not once did they review something for tha celtics . next year we will come back to the finals to get our stolen nba title . see ya next year buddy .

  • 15GREEN15

    and look how many times d fish flopss ! specially the one when he got to tha line for faking then he tried it agen and cried to tha ref wen obviousilly hes putting on an act

  • Chris O.

    @ Sophomore and Shooter

    Ummm it wouldn’t just b Sheed’s contract for Shaq and Parker/Moon.

    It would probably be something like Sheed’s contract and pick(s) for Shaq and Parker/Moon…

    and how does it help Cleveland…well they get rid of Parker/Moon both of which are over 30 and they really have no use for as they are not CONTENDERS anymore and they get $$$ off the books with getting rid of Parker or Moon and Sheed’s contract. They would also get a pick (or picks). WTF does Cleveland have to make them say no…well they have Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison so maybe they could lock up the 8 seed in the East (still probably not), they should keep Jamario or Parker for that reason…yea right.

  • pmd3311

    I dont know what Ainge is doing but he is borderline retarted. Shaq is out there and he takes the other O’neal. Shaq can still finish around the basket against the best centers in the league something none of our bigs can do on a regular basis. Look back at the Laker and Magic series. If we had Shaq on the block Paul and Ray wouldnt have had to work so hard on offense. I would rather have a guy who can finish around the basket than a guy who can just play the pick and roll a lil better. Rondo would have a field day with someone like Shaq he can dishoff to and they dunk the ball and not lose it out of bounds or have it stripped from their hands. Shaq is an excellent passer also so Dannyboy needs to get out of the trashbin and sign Shaq ASAP!

  • Jrmz

    @pmd3311

    Shaq can finish around the rim but clogs up the paint. That doesn’t help when Rondo’s best attack is driving in and finishing. Sure Rondo can dish the ball off to Shaq but even then, we still need a ranged big man like Sheed was for us last season. Because Perkins and Shaq off your bench doesn’t exactly give you the range needed to threaten offenses.

  • pmd3311

    @ Jrmz we wont need Shaq to sit out at the three point line Garnett can do that. And they can still run iso’s with Rondo and have Shaq crashing if his man tries to stop Rondo. We dont need anymore finess bigs period!

  • pmd3311

    Oh and Rondo cant finish among the trees Dwight still has his nuts.lol

  • Jason

    It’d be nice to get Parker along with Shaq but I don’t think that’s realistic. Cleveland doesn’t even have an incentive to trade Shaq for Rasheed straight up unless the Celtics make it worth their while but they’re also going to include Parker as well? He doesn’t have a future in Cleveland but he’s a free agent after this season and will have trade value to contending teams during the season. To get Parker and Shaq, the Celtics are going to have to really give Cleveland something, like maybe Glen Davis but even then, Davis’ impending free agency makes him less valuable.

  • K.C.

    I think that Shaq has to realize that he is only worth the vet min if he wants to try and win his 5th title with the Celtics. I don’t see Cleveland helping the Celtics in any way with a sign and trade. Would T-Mac take the vet min to be a Pierce back-up? Celtics still need two more pieces.

  • 15GREEN15

    i think its that time for a new celtics article post .

  • Sophomore

    @Chris O. – that’s the point. We’d have to give Cleveland something more than Sheed’s contract to get Moon and Shaq. Would picks do it? I don’t know. But we aren’t getting them for free – which is what a lot of people seem to be waiting for.

  • Sophomore

    Off-topic, but if you haven’t yet, you owe it to yourself to check out the video – guard Mike James invites the supernanny into his house. It … does not go well.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Mike-James-admires-the-Utah-Jazz-organization?urn=nba-259342

    Scroll down to see the vid.

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    OFF TOPIC BUT WHY DO MOST HEAT PLAYERS THINK SINCE YOU CANT BEAT THE BEST,PLAY WITH THE BEST

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