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Nate To Return? Rudy Deal Dead?

 

Mark Murphy’s notebook is full of tidbits, the most relevant of which is the fact that Nate Robinson and the C’s are close to a deal:

Aaron Goodwin, the agent for Nate Robinson, said yesterday the two sides could reach a deal by the end of the week.

“Things are going well,” Goodwin said. “We’re just trying to get something worked out. But both parties are talking.”

Inking Nate would give the C’s 10 players under contract, and, taken with the team’s decision to let TA walk, would seem to signal that the organization realizes the team’s offense must improve in order to compete for a title again next season.

Or perhaps that would be reading too much into the pair of decisions? Here’s Murphy on what went down with TA:

According to a league source, the Celtics offered Allen an amount similar to the $3 million he will receive annually from Memphis but were unwilling to guarantee the third year as the Grizzlies did.

Interesting. 

Two other notes:

• Murphy reports trade talks with Portland for Rudy Fernandez are dead:

Portland guard Rudy Fernandez was thought to be another target, though talks between the Blazers and C’s appear to have fallen apart.

“I don’t think it’s going to happen,” a league official said. “That deal came and went.”

I’m not surprised. The Celtics have very little to offer Portland for Fernandez, a marketable player on a cheap and potentially expiring deal. 

• Murphy writes this about Nate Robinson:

Unlike they had with Allen, the C’s don’t hold the so-called “Larry Bird rights” to Robinson, and as a result, can’t go over the salary cap to give their backup point guard more money.

Robinson, however, has professed a desire to return.

That’s mostly true, but if I’m reading Larry Coon’s Bible correctly, the C’s have a sort of mini-Bird rights on Robinson. The collective bargaining agreement includes a so-called “non-Bird” exception that allows teams to go over the cap to sign their own free agents, even if the team does not have Bird Rights on those free agents. Players simply have to complete a partial season for their current team to qualify for this mini-Bird exception. 

The difference between this and regular Bird Rights, though, is that the team in Boston’s situation can only offer 120 percent of the player’s previous salary. That would appear to allow Boston to offer Nate $6 million for 2011 even though the team is over the cap. 

I will try to verify this with Larry Coon later today, but if the capologists among our readers think I’m misreading this section—or that it doesn’t apply to Robinson because he forfeited his traditional Bird Rights when the Knicks traded him to Boston—please let me know.

  • Josh A

    interesting

  • John A

    Whats happening with Raja Bell? Is he still hurt?
    I think he could replace TA and come in at the vet min.

  • Mike B

    They’ll pay nate robinson $6 million, but they wouldn’t give TA anything more that $3.3?? That seems odd because although nate is a great spark off the bench and a pretty good scorer, TA played some huge defensive minutes in the finals and this is primarily a defensive team.

  • Tai

    i hope we can offer him but ppl said tony allen was locked down and he left for grizzlies thats wht i don’t really care if we are in talks iwanted to see “Nate robinson has inked new ? year deal” then i will be happy

    tony allen leaving the cs still hurts its like my girlfriend leaving me for another man if that other man was a celtic it wouldn’t hurt that much lmao but i know she don’t find any of them attractive lmaoi thought that guy was a c for life he will be missed gonna hate those trips to memphis now that said i hope we can do something productive with sheeds deal i hope we can get a vets minimum for eddie oi tihkn cause hes a 12 yr vet he can make 2.5 million i liked fernandez as a back-up to ray but if its not mean’t to be its not mean’t

    oh and danny do not resign marquis shelden orscal we got a new scal in harongody hes an inch shorter and probaly can get 8 inches higher of the ground and hes got a 3 point jay

    if possible scal should annouce retirement and we can send a deal that way

  • Tai

    part of me wishes they gave tony that third year but i nkow we will need to rebuild in that 3rd year and 2 years of mid level exceptions will make the heat alot better in my opinion im begining to like the j’o deal i just hopewe can use sheeds deal wisely and get a shooter at vets minimum

  • NHBluesMan

    i like Nate as an energy guy. And really, everyone seems to forget that although we let TA go, Avery Bradley is a great defender, and will get BETTER in the Celtics system, AND can produce on offense! sounds like an upgrade over TA to me. I’ll miss him, but at the same time, i know Danny has the C’s best interest in mind.

    Bring back Nate, have him at the point with Bradley at the 2 for a small unit, and have them run the floor like crazy and bring the energy when our starters need a break.

    GO C’s!!!

  • Craig

    You’re reading the cap exactly right.

  • K.J. Lee

    @Zach,

    ‘That would appear to allow Boston to offer Nate $6 million for 2011 even though the team is over the cap.’

    Yes, we are allowed to offer Nate up to 125 per cent of his last year’s salary up to a period of five years.

  • http://CelticsHub.com Zach Lowe

    I didn’t say the C’s would pay Nate $6M. Just that they could pay him up to that much under the rules of the CBA.

  • K.J. Lee

    Sorry, it is 120 per cent, or $6M.

  • D-Dave

    5M + 20% (1M) = 6M
    4M + 20% (800K) = 4.8M

    If memory serves, the C’s did not pay the 1M bonus for games played + playoffs, so I would guess the $4.8M is the max they can pay. I know Nate is appealing the $1M bonus issue, but had not heard that there was any findings announced.

    Either way, 4.8M or 6M, the C’s can pay close to MLE money for a few years. We’ll see if Nate takes it. Hope so.

  • john

    You are reading the cap correctly. I, however, thought that you only forfeit Bird Rights if you have changed teams via free agency within the past three years. I thought you traded bird rights to the player upon trading said player. That was the case with Ray Allen. I thought it would have applied to Nate, as well.

  • http://CelticsHub.com Zach Lowe

    @D-Dave: I am not sure how the bonus is calculated, especially with the appeal pending, so I went with the max figure. I don’t even know if the CBA really speaks specifically to this issue, but I can try to check.

    But as you say, either $4.8M or $6M would seem to be fair for Nate

  • Jay P

    I think he would take that kinda money, and maybe even take a discount.

    He loved playing in Boston, and it is the kinda place he could really revitalize his career. A couple more performances like Game 4 of the finals, and teams will come knocking in a 2 years with 7-10mil on the table. It’s not a crazy though, the whole league knows the guy can score, be he’s proving in Boston he can be the complete package as well. Stingy, full-court defense, smart decisions with the Basketball, cutting down on crazy shots. This is the type of play that can earn him a serious raise when he leaves Boston, and allow him to compete for a championship for two years.

    He’s still very young, he’ll have plenty of time to be a starter again somewhere else, and cash in when the ride is over for the Celtics. There’s a lot of reason for him to stay.

    Then again… I thought the same thing about TA. I really just do not understand why they refused they third year, you really might be onto something there Zach with this “Offense needs to get better” stuff Zach.

    My only thought is… at what cost to the defense?

  • Jay P

    Who are the 10 under contract Zach? I’m assuming you’re not including Gaffney and Lafayette’s deals since their non-guaranteed?

    So that’d make:

    1 – Paul
    2 – Ray
    3 – Perk
    4 – Baby
    5 – Rondo
    6 – Bradley
    7 – JO
    8 – KG
    9 – Erden
    10 – Wallace (Till he retires you have to count him)

    With Nate it’d be 11, and then you’re not counting the non-guaranteed deals of Gaffney and Lafayette.

  • http://CelticsHub.com Zach Lowe

    I’m not counting Sheed, because by “under contract” what I really mean is “under contract and likely to play for the Celtics next season.”

  • Ivan

    Are the Cs considering Ronnie Brewer. He can be a valuable asset off the bench who brings great defensive ability. I think he will be a good replacement for TA. What does anybody else think?

  • Jay P

    One of two things has to be occurring here. Either Ainge has a lot of confidence that Daniels can have a bounce back year, and he’s looking to resign him. Or, there’s something their keeping hush hush in the works for Wallace’s contract.

    There’s simple no other way he lets TA walk, he could not possibly think we’d be able to get a decent TA replacement at the Vet min.

  • al

    i like the idea of resigning nate, he’ll be a much better player with a full training camp, but I’m worried that the C’s won’t make any other moves because financial restrictions, either luxury tax or salaries after 2012.

    I don’t buy the idea that the C’s will sign a major free agent in 2012, I didn’t buy it 3 yrs ago. There are too many variables involved and the whole notion is predicated on the flawed argument that the original big three should have been broken up.

    Hit your draft picks, keep your core guys, and make smart trades. That’s how you rebuild. Relying on cap space and free agents is stupid. An extra year for TA wouldn’t of broken the bank.

  • Evan

    I think Nate is a great fit. He looked like he was starting to get more comfortable with the team in the playoffs. Playing a full season and going through training camp will give him the confidence to shoot when he should and the understanding to pass when he should.

    If Rudy isn’t who is going to replace TA I wonder where Danny is going to look. Dudley? Marvin Williams?

  • Perry

    If we use 2012 as a baseline, it’s pretty clear they want to come as close as possible to limit incoming contracts spanning no more than 2 years. I would be shocked if Nate Robinson’s contract extended past 2012 regardless of the ambiguity surround his NON-BR. More so, I remain stupefied as to why they wouldn’t guarantee a third year. Even if they’re matching $1 for $1 on the luxury tax end, it’s a small price tag to pay at the position with the least amount of depth. Okay he’s turnover machine, injury prone, blah blah blah. But with the perimeter threats lining up around the league TA’s departure remains a head scratchier…until we learn the true road map for next season.

  • Perry

    …sidebar note

    looks like the Magic won’t be matching the Bulls offer for Reidck since Q. Rich is in the fold. I have to say the Bulls are looking extremely impressive, and they have cap room left for Brad Miller. A job well done.

  • http://CelticsHub.com Zach Lowe

    We will be addressing possible Sheed deals later today.

    I expect Orlando to match for Redick.

  • Jay P

    Bulls will beat Miami next year. Yep, you heard it hear first.

  • Evan

    @Zach on possible Sheed deals remember that they can include Lafayette and/or Gaffney to increase the money that they can take back. Also I read that Sheed has a trade kicker that increases the value of his contract can you confirm this? If this is true Sheed can net a anywhere from $6 MM to $12 MM (with the d leaguers).

  • Perry

    @JayP

    If you’re going to beat Miami, better get it done this year or next. Riley will build on his core five with the MLE starting next off season. All they need is an adequate PG. Halsem left $13m on the table, and he’s the worker bee for them as Posey was for us. Exceptional sacrifice when you consider the liquidity in the market.

  • Jay P

    @Perry

    I’m tired of hearing this “sacrifice” stuff. The guy is still making millions of dollars, how is it a sacrifice that he gets to win a championship or two, then cash in and retire with a couple rings.

    Let’s not make him out to be Mother Theresa, he’s not sacrificing for the team he’s doing it for himself, come on.

  • Jeff

    I keep wondering if they are revamping the team. The defensive guru is leaving, the main players are older (not as quick — btw Raja Bell is not the stopper he once was), Rondo is at his best on the run. I can imagine them using a lot of energy guys to get up and down, use the second unit more (especially against the non-elite teams), get lots of open threes for Allen and Pierce, fast break dunks and trailing J’s for KG and Jermaine. Then revert as needed (we’ve seen this team switch it on for the playoffs) after Perk returns.
    Final thought, changing the subject: I’ve also been wondering if Ainge was feeling as dismissive of Daniels as this site has seemed to be. Isn’t he as capable (or more?) of switching our attitudes as TA, Nate and ‘sheed did in the playoffs?

  • mike

    riley can build with the MLE assuming that things go smooth…lebron may shut it down again in the playoffs…miami could run into a team like boston that has the ability to shut down 2 of the little 3…perhaps there’s some infighting when dwade or lebron don’t get to take 25 shots per….it’s nice to say it, but when their stats slip and they lose 2 of 3, some 25 y/olds are gonna get snippy…

  • mike

    @ jeff…you make a good point about them turning it on…they may just want to make sure they get to the playoffs and go from there….ending up with a pick in the late teens will only help the rebuilding that seems to be coming in 2 years…

  • Perry

    @JayP

    …in context my friend

    just talking the wacky world of the NBA, not the world you and I live in :-)

  • Perry

    @JayP

    maybe sacrifice was the wrong word, but according to Rev. Jackson, Gilbert who is guilty of enabling LBJ is also guilty of slavery??

    …after hundreds of millions of dollars earned and every imaginable endorsement?

    Like you, it’s hard to feel empathy for any of these people.

  • Jay P

    @Perry

    Amen to that.

    And Jackson should be shot, seriously. The guys a joke.

  • al

    @perry

    remember next year the cba will be redone, and one thing owners will definitely get rid of is the MLE, so unless they lessen the restrictions of the current system, Miami might be stuck with their roster for the next couple of years. They’ll still be dangerous though.

  • Rich

    Miami needs to be in win right now mode…who knows what the CBA will look like after this season.

    I just love seeing Scotty Jr. sitting to the side of Wade in their interviews. That will, eventually, eat away at his ego to a point where he won’t be able to take it anymore. We’ve seen LBJ quit before..he’ll do it again if he isn’t getting his way.

    And I also like the Bulls if they get Reddick. That will be a dangerous team. Boozer eats Bosh alive when they play..and if he can manage to stay healthy, look out.

  • Rich

    Also, remember that those three backloaded their contracts so they could have cap room specifically for this year. They missed out on Fisher and managed to get Mike Miller. From here on out, their contracts start really heading up faster than normal because of they way they structured them. They really need to win this year.

  • Sophomore

    How about this? The Heat fall next year in the Eastern Conf. Finals or NBA Finals. Following year is lost to lockout. Year after that they lose to the OKC Thunder. LBJ seeks a trade to OKC.

  • Jay P

    If Miami strikes out (I think it’s unlikely, but possible) it will be the greatest thing I have ever witnessed.

  • dont_drink_the_koolaid

    i think nate has a lot more to offer than we saw last year. another year in the system and more minutes early will do wonders for him. that said, he is the exact same player as bradley so if any of the role players were expendable, i thought it was him. i think this decision really rests on whether they think bradley can provide a consistent 15-20min per game as a rookie.

    and nate may say he wants to stay but the Cs cost him millions last year by not playing him a couple games at the end of the year meaning he did not get his contract bonus for # of games played. he will not forget that in negotiations.

  • dont_drink_the_koolaid

    @sophmore: we’ll never c lebron in the backwater of OKC, but i fully agree that they are a dynasty in the making. forget miami, if you could bet who will win the most titles between 2012 and 2017…..i’ll take the thunder 4 sure.

  • dont_drink_the_koolaid

    @mike agree on the ego and pressure to win situations the heat have created. i really think they will selfdestruct. first question of first interview, they all looked at each other on who would speak first…. lebron jumped in….wade went second. will be an interesting alpha-dog dynamic when they stumble a bit.

  • http://www.truecloud.com Dave

    Danny appears to have drawn a line in the sand with this generation of core players, not to exceed a two year threshold.

    That’s probably a pretty smart move. I’ve seen so many GMs who just keep chasing the prize by making small changes to same old aging mix.

    The Spurs have been trying to resuscitate a team around the aging Duncan for 3 years running now.

  • Jeff

    I don’t think Danny wanted to see TA go but it also may have been sending him a message of, “You did good this year TA but, where were you the other four years?! And now you want a raise and a longer term deal?! How about 2 years $3 mil?”

    TA: “SCREW YOU DAN!”

    That’s probably somewhat how it went.

    As for Quis, I’m fine with bringing him back. He’s more versatile, bigger, and has the offensive game TA doesn’t. Maybe with TA out of the equation he might flourish into the player that he has the potential to be!

    If we can’t get him back then I’d say do a sign and trade for him if we can so that we don’t lose him.

    Brining back Nate would be good, because if we can get back Eddie, resign Nate and Quis, the second unit could really spread the floor and Quis could have more room to slash! That is when he’s at his best is attacking the basket. If we can do that I’d say bring them all back.

  • Jeff

    There are two Jeffs commenting here. I posted the crap about running more, and the question about ‘quis. I wouldn’t have used the same tone as the other Jeff, but I agree with the gist of his post.

  • D-Dave

    Jeff – I hear you. I went to D-Dave because there are two Dave’s here (or were). Ha-ha.

  • Shooter

    @Jeff….are you sure about that? As far as i know the reason the Bobcats have beaten the Lakers in as many games is because of Raja’s D on Kobe.He didn’t drop off defensively/offensively either when he came back from a wrist injury which wasn’t fully healed btw,around early January.Then he was traded to Golden Stae where he only played one game where he hit all his 3s and shot 4-6 from the field(remember his wrist injury wasn’t fully healed).
    So, how is it you know he’s not the “stopper” he used to be again?
    Kobe isn’t fiending for this guy for nothing.Anyway, by all reports,it seems Danny hasn’t expressed any interest in Raja,so i’ll stop mentioning his name here.

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