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C’s Meeting with Kwame Brown?!?

Desperate times call for desperate measures. With the Celtics lacking any kind of center depth on the NBA roster and limited resources to fill the void, Danny Ainge undoubtedly will be looking under every rock for potential candidates.

Brad Miller and Shaq are just a few of the names that have been thrown around and The Boston Herald reports that you can add one more to that list, in the form of the immortal Kwame Brown, who will be meeting with the team down in Orlando:

“Kwame lives pretty close to (the Orlando Summer League), so he’s going to drive down to meet with Danny and Doc,” said agent Mark Bartelstein. “They want to get to know him a little bit.”

“We’re checking out a lot of possibilities – it’s still very early in the process,” Danny Ainge said today of what is certain to be a broad casting call for big men, including Shaquille O’Neal.

Ainge said he has not set up a meeting, to this point, with O’Neal.

The Celtics’ desire to meet with another of Bartelstein’s clients – veteran center Brad Miller – is on hold while the rest of the market waits for LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh to make decisions.

“A lot with Brad will come into play when all of that happens,” said Bartelstein, who confirmed that a team with a lot more money to spend than the Celtics – Houston – has significant interest in Miller.

Let’s try to rationalize this development, shall we?

First off, let’s not get ahead of ourselves, this is just a meeting. They likely won’t be offering him a contract for any more than the veteran’s minimum if at all, even if they do like him, down the road. So before you get miffed at Danny, just keep him mind that he has to look at every possibility in this juncture, especially given that his depth chart for healthy players training camp right now at the center position consists of Semi Erden….and well that’s it. Save the outrage.

Now for the more important part. Could Kwame help the Celtics in any meaningful capacity, if they were to take a chance on one of the biggests busts ever taken with the 1st pick of the NBA Draft.

Brown has been hounded by questionable behavior both on and off the court throughout his career, so needless to say the C’s would do their homework on this guy if they give him a chance.

As far as Brown’s game goes, he does do a couple things well: Rebounding and defense. Brown’s rebounding rate has improved dramatically in the best couple years on both sides of the floor in Detroit, where’s he coming off of a 2 year/8 million dollar deal. These skills make him a possible younger, and more athletic compliment as a potential 5th big off the bench for the C’s. However, there are flaws and they are plentiful within Kwame’s game. Here’s John Hollinger’s scouting report on him from last year:

Brown is a terrible offensive player, but he has some value on D. He’s a good pick-and-roll defender, and physical enough to defend big centers on the block. His rate of blocks deteriorated last season, and he commits a foul every 7.2 minutes. This makes it difficult to keep him on the floor for extended minutes, in the odd event a team would want to, but he’s still a quality post defender.

Offensively, Brown has terrible hands and still tries to do things too fast. He’s a poor shooter who has failed to improve since entering the league, and an even worse foul shooter. Coaches become blinded by his size and try to use him as a post weapon, but he’s ineffective in this role because of his poor offensive instincts, bad footwork, worse hands and iffy shooting.

The offense is even worse than Hollinger described. 3.3 points a game. 34% free throw shooting. A complete liability on that end. Still, he’s a big body (6-11) and can bang down low if he tries (a big if), at least on the defensive end. Defense and rebounding is usually what the C’s are looking for out of their bigs anyway, so it’s possible Brown could fit the bill.

I guess the question it boils down to here, is whether Brown is worth a chance, in a kind of a Shelden Williams mold. As an overrated lottery pick, he could take a chance to earn a role with a winner for short money, proving his worth and help resurrect his career. Will it happen? As we saw with Shelden, the odds would be stacked against him.

However, Williams, despite his shortcomings in the playoffs, did provide some decent minutes in the early stages of last year’s regular season in the absence of Big Baby. Is it too crazy to think the C’s could get something similar out of Brown for the first couple months of this season, if Doc and company can get through to him?

Again, this is just a lot of likely meaningless speculation right now. If Doc and Danny don’t get a good vibe from Kwame in this meeting, they’ll take a pass. Still both sides potentially see attractive possibilities with each other. For Kwame, it’s a chance at an opportunity to earn minutes with an NBA contender. For the C’s, it’s a cheap big with size, and strong defensive and rebounding abilities.

Whether both sides see it that way remains to be seen, but with the lack of younger candidates on the market in the C’s price range, it’s probably worth kicking the tires on a guy like Kwame, despite the baggage he could bring.

  • Jay P

    It’s 0 risk if it’s a minimum deal, I’d take a shot at it, and hope that KG and Big Cliff can knock some sense into him, and get him to reach even a fraction of that potential he had.

    I wont hold my breath for that to happen, but ya, at a minimum deal where you can just relegate him to the bench if it doesn’t work and send him packing next year (ala Shelden Williams) sure, why the hell not.

  • Sophomore

    Not much financial risk if he’s available for the vet min. As long as he isn’t locker room poison, I say do it. He’s almost certainly going to be better this year than Erden or Parakhouskis.

  • Cptn Bubbles

    I think this shows how hard it’s going to be to get a center. Still, I’ve never seen a game in which I thought Kwame played really hard or smart or well.

  • Jay P


    Eh, I wouldn’t be so sure of that. I’m not certain he’ll be better than either of those guys.

    But ya, I have 0 worry about the locker room stuff. This team can’t she shaken by the likes of him. So there’s no risk, and plenty of potential reward if by some miracle, the boston vets can get through to him.

  • mike

    @jay p
    totally agreed…not as if the c’s can’t make up perk’s points…if he can rebound and play solid D for the vet min, it’s a good signing…

  • mike

    wasn’t in on the other post, but if shaq would take the vet min, i’d do it in a heartbeat…he still has some offensive game, and wouldn’t be a total detriment to the D and can rebound still….he also fits into the offense well…

  • Coolin

    This would be kind of sad in some sort of way. I hope we can get a free agent or two who aren’t going to be anything other than awful. This has to be a joke by Ainge.
    We need to get Shaq or someone who can atleast play basketball. This guy not only can’t play but, he is one of the dumber players out there. He is a poooor mans Kendrick Perkins, think how crazy he will make the fans once ont he floor.

  • Coolin

    But I would take him over Shelden Williams anyday of the week.

  • aaron

    kwame brown who? just give shaq an offer and get it over with, hes nice and slow, fills the lane gets rebounds, blocks and can score more than perk’s 6 points a game(and not as dumb as sheldon williams).

  • Jeff

    Any time I hear of anything involving Kwame I always seem to think…What if?

    What if Kwame lived up to his potential?

    What if he was given some good coaching by a coach who understands the game and relates to his players?

    (Phil Jackson in this regard is not a good coach, he simply massages the egos of big headed players that need to be told how amazing they are, then whine until they can pull some insanely one-sided deal to get another wuss who will follow his prima donna)

    I still remember that first year Kwame went to Detroit and they played LA, and out of no where Kwame had like a double double against them with like 10pts and 12 rebounds!

    I thought to myself, he has what’s needed to be a real contributor in the NBA! But his incosistency and lack of focus have held him back unfortunately. If they do take a go with him, and he doesn’t respond to PP, KG, Perk, Rondo, and Doc, then no one will get through to him. But look how well knuckle heads like Steph, Nate, TA, and Davis have responded being on the Celtic’s…maybe…

    Also, I’m sure that Rondo can get Kwame some pretty easy buckets with the dimes he dishes.

    If Kwame will run, play D, rebound, and be smart on and off the court for the C’s for the first time in his career, then he could be a good piece to add.

    At Vet’s min, I’d do it in a heart beat, if Danny and Doc are comfortable with him.

  • Joe Blough

    Problems with Shaq are: 1) he is a terrible pick & roll defender (excuse me — I meant to say ignominiously horrendous pick & roll defender); 2) he can’t get up and down the floor, so, a) you can’t fast break by opportunity (yes, I know the Celts aren’t a ‘fast break’ team — but, they do ‘break’ on opportunity); b) nor can he get back to establish the defensive perimeter after the Celts miss a shot from their half-court offense (Celtics’ practice is not to crash the boards after a missed shot, but to fall back to establish their defense and deny opponents easy baskets); c) the Cavaliers’ offense was less fluid with him on the floor ( I’m surprised people don’t remember this — the Cavs simply had no other options — it’s not like they could roll Ilgaukas out there for major minutes); d) Shaq’s not coming for the Veterans Minimum — and not worth any part of the Mid-Level Exception.

  • Paul

    I’d rather Kwame at the minimum than Brad Miller at the mid-level. We need to spend the MLE on a 2/3 who can give PP and RA (if he’s back some rest). Ideally, Mike Miller (if RA leaves) but he may fetch more this Summer.

  • Jay P

    @Joe blough

    That’s not really true about the fast break part. First, Perk isn’t exactly blazing speed either, so that really doesn’t change much.

    You don’t need 5 players to run a break, you just need more then the defense has back. 3v2, 4v3, whatever you just hope you have better numbers, so the defense has to make a decision on when to help off someone, and stop the ball, and leave someone open for an opportunity.

    Even with Perk on the floor, 9/10, he’s the trailer, and they’ll only use him if the ball gets stuck and they need an outlet to reset, he’ll get the ball near the top of the key and then Rondo loops around to set the offense. That only happens when the break fails, so adding Shaq doesn’t change anything there.

    The Cavs offense was worse because they played Shaq like he 10 years younger. Feeding him the ball in the post, and just letting him work. There was no off-ball movement, no cutting, they just relied on Shaq to go 1v1. That will not work against Perk. It should be noted though, Shaq is still a GREAT post presence, against any post defender not named Kendrick Perkins or Dwight Howard, he is perfectly capable of establishing a post game. There aren’t a lot of centers out there that have the size and strength to keep Shaq from getting the ball with inside position.

  • Paging Dr. Clifford Ray…

    I think Cliffy is probably the only one who has the right approach to young big men and could transform Kwame into a decent backup.

  • Shooter

    Everytime i see Kwame Brown’s name pop up as a headline i think……………..OOOOOHHHH SHIT!!!!
    No way.I know,i know what Danny’s thinking here and let’s be honest it’s not like we have options flying at us from every direction,but i would think signing Ben Wallace, if he’s available, would be the better option.

  • TRC

    Not sure where else to put this since there’s no Summer League open thread: Tony Gaffney is playing like a beast right now.

    However, he’s wearing the Air Zoom Kobe’s…not cool Tony…not cool.

  • Kwame Brown is NOT completely terrible, people just think he is because he was a number one pick years ago. Had he been drafted in the second round, people would have a different opinion of him I think.

    He can play decent D, and most importantly he can REBOUND. Let’s face it, defensive rebounding is the main reason we lost to the Lakers this year. Fourth quarter scoring wasn’t helpful, but those second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh opportunities the Lakers kept getting absolutely killed us. If he were to come here for the minimum, that would not be a bad pickup. Wouldn’t pay a dime over that, though.

    (Keep in mind, our options are severely limited, and none of the few we DO have are particularly sexy.)

  • Jay P


    Awesome to hear, went to high school with Tony, and I am really pulling for him.

  • Mark

    In this search for free agents I had the most awesome thought the other day. What if the Cs signed, say, Shaq, and then invented a time machine. Look at the starting lineup, and imagine these players in their prime, together:

    C- Shaq
    F- KG
    F- Paul
    G- Ray
    G- Rondo

    How FUCKING AWESOME would that be?

  • Jay P


    Well… time machine wouldn’t work because if you went back to those other guys prime Rondo would be like… 9 years old.

    However, if they discovered the fountain of youth, that’d be awesome.

  • Chris O.

    There’s really nothing to lose, if the guy could play 20-25 ok minutes getting some boards and eating up fouls, what we need is big bodies, vet min is worth it.

  • Shooter

    I’m not sold on Kwame nor can you convince me in any shape or form,up,down,left,right or centre.
    Any news on the Ben Wallace front?

  • Shooter

    Harangody beasting the boards

  • shane

    Earl Barron #30 PF
    2009-10 STATS
    11.7 11 0.6
    Birth Date August 14, 1981
    Birth Place Clarksdale, MS
    Height 7-0
    Weight 250 lbs.
    Age 28
    Position PF
    Experience 4 years
    College Memphis

    why dont celtics go after this guy instead ? he played for the knicks last season .

  • Cptn Bubbles

    @Jay P Excellent points about Shaq.

    I would also add that before you can have a fast break you have to have a rebound. Shaq doesn’t need to run the floor if he gets the rebound he has more than enough muscle to throw the ball down the court faster than anybody can dribble it. Subsequently, if the Cs get the transition hoop then look who is back 1st on defense.

    If the Cavs won then it would be all about lebron. Since the Cavs lost & it can’t be lebron’s fault then a scapegoat is needed. Saying that Shaq was the downfall of the Cavs is just completely lame. They didn’t exactly play like champions when Shaq was resting….and that was the majority of the game! No, the Cavs lost primarily because of our great D. It wasn’t the cavs giving us those wins. We went out there & took them.

  • The Dude Abides

    I hereby endorse Kwame Brown signing a contract to play for the Celtics.


  • rob

    no kwame just shaq bring the big fella to boston and let him start until perk gets back then he can come of the bench for 15-20 minutes get us some boards as we haven’t had a legit backup REBOUNDING center or a while and yes sheed i’m looking at you.

  • Sweeney

    @ Jay P,

    Great points. You are spot on. Mike Brown didn’t know how to use his pieces and had some horrible offensive sets. One thing to think about is Shaq has some soft hands and can still go up. Perk has to gather himself and can be a bit labored. I would think Rondo’s #’s would go up with a big who can catch and finish, even if it is for 20 minutes a game.

    Honestly, after Shaq and Miller there are no big names that I would want. I cannot see Kwame here, and I don’t want Erden around one bit.

    I am in favor of giving Shelden another go. I thought he did well in filling in the early part of the year. However, he needs some consistent work or the luster wears off.

    Not an easy go for the GM on this one.

  • Steve

    Kwame Brown hasn’t played 20 good minutes in his CAREER! Why not just call up Mikki Moore again? I don’t believe Brown is capable of learning the C’s offense, defense, flight times, practice facility address… To this point the biggest thing he did was bring Pau to LA. He has caused enough damage to Boston without playing badly for them. Please, Danny, PASS on this one.

  • Jay P

    No ones arguing Kwame will be the answer to all the C’s problem.

    All I’m saying is there’s really no downside to it. It you get him for the minimum, you lose nothing. He fills a bench spot and if he doesn’t work out, he stays on that bench.

    On the other hand, there was a reason he went #1, there was potential there. So if by some miracle, he listens to KG or Cliff ray, or Doc, and somehow they get him to finally wake the hell up and use some of his ridiculous athletic and natural talents, he might be pretty damn good.

    So basically, why not give it a shot.

  • kehntangibles

    Look – I know it’s just speculative, but to put this in perspective:

    I’m also a Laker fan. And I’m not joking when I say that if the Celtics were playing an al-Qaeda coached by Hitler, I’d cheer for the al-Qaeda team. And having said that…

    I still wouldn’t wish Kwame Brown on you guys.

  • Sophomore

    Nobody’s saying Kwame’s good. But he’s tall, strong, reasonably quick, and he can rebound. If he’s available at the vet min, I’m not sure I see the harm in slotting him in for the bench and seeing if he can work his way into the rotation. If he fails, cut him.

    It might be that Erden or Parak. will show some craft, but I can tell you for sure, right now, that they make Eric Montross look quick. They’re not quite in Ilgauskas territory, but they’re close, and not as tall. And if either one of them has a credible low post game, I’ve yet to see it. I’ll qualify that because I’ve only seen one game – they may have moves they haven’t shown. but it’s very clear neither of them has any quickness or leaping ability.

  • pam

    anyone else think it might be a good idea to renounce ray rays bird rights? if he gets a massive offer we all fear, the c’s arent going to offer him more. so whats the point of holding onto his bird rights? do we get some cap room to sign someone else decent (like redick) at the 2 without using our mle?

  • Shooter

    NO NO NO if you didn’t see it than i don’t know what to say but the Cavs were a better team when they had Varejao and Hickson on.
    Kwame had the worst hands in the world.
    I would be ok with Shaq if we got him with half the MLE.
    Ben Wallace where are you?

  • Cptn Bubbles

    Vinny Del Negro is going to coach the Clippers………should we think of that as a step forward or backward for Vinny?

    Lebron is contracting with espn to have a 1hr special on thursday night for the announcement of his decision. To his credit, they are supposed to be donating proceeds to boys & girls clubs. I’m really thinking this has all been a runaround for pub., & he will stay with the cavs. What does Celtic Nation think?

  • Cptn Bubbles

    Can we put Kwame on our summer league team & then make a decision? They need some help….

  • I love Green

    @The Captain- I think Lebron is going to have a hat of the Akron Zips, and the Cavs. Then he’s gonna talk about how much he loves Akron, and how it would be really tough to leave home. Then he’ll push the Cavs hat off the table and say “But if I leave the Cavs I can still keep my house in Akron,” at this point he’ll be reaching under the table for a Chicago Bulls hat, put it on the table with a huge smile, and proceed to say “After much thought, and talking with my family and friends I’ve decided that Cleveland wouldn’t be the best place to pursue my dream of winning a championship. We gave it a good run, but I feel it’s just not the right fit.” Then he’ll put on the Bulls hat and say, “The Bulls from the beginning were a very intriguing team,” then he’ll take off the Bulls hat and toss it next to the Cavs hat and say, “But I don’t think that’s the right fit either.” Then he’ll reach under the table pulling out Chris Paul who is wearing a Nets hat, and also has one in his hand. Lebron will then say, “I’ve decided to sign with the New Jersey Nets, who are already in discussions with the Hornets to trade for Chris Paul, and are very very close to reaching a deal with Carlos Boozer.”

    Made it all up as I went along.

  • Cptn Bubbles

    @Green Nice & it sounds bron plausible

    All of this courting & deliberation sounds so staged now. As if lebron will not know what he is going to do until thursday night @ 9:59pm. They should have lebron at the end of the hour say, “I’ve decided to sign with” and then the screen goes blank with an announcer saying, “tune in next week for the exciting conclusion to the conclusion of lebron’s feigned deliberation to make a decision about the decision he already made a long time ago, but hey he loves the attention, so stay tuned suckers.”

  • Jay P


    No, the Celtics would still be over cap, and not have any money to resign, other than the MLE.

    They can resign Ray because of his bird rights (which allow them to go pay him over the salary cap) and that’s what make him the best (and really only) option. Their just praying the market doesn’t drive his price up too high, cause there’s really not a plan B, unless anyone wants to see Tony Allen starting.

  • Cptn Bubbles

    Now we’re gonna get almost TWO full days of espn milking this lebron drama till we would all gladly pay a hefty ransom to just make it go away.

    The only way he could top it is if he went on Oprah & cried for 59min before, with his head on Oprah’s shoulder as tears streamed down his cheeks, he whispered out his decision with confetti & balloons dropping from the ceiling as 3 dancing bears & a marching band paraded around the couch.

  • Ben

    Have the celtics considered signing Big Z from the cavs? It doesn’t look like they have many options at center, and Big Z is tall enough, and can spread the floor with a good mid range game. Is anyone actively pursuing him?

  • Zain

    @Green: hilarious story. He is so egotistical and such a media whore. I don’t care who he signs with, he still can’t beat the Celtics.

  • Jay P


    He doesn’t do a whole lot well. Average rebounder and post defender, decent mid-range game, decent post moves. Really, ridiculously, glacier like slow.

    Not worth the MLE, veteran minimum only. They might give it a shot, given their need for size, but those deals will happen late in the game. Everyone is going to see how the dust settles on the major FAs in the market, then the vets will decide what contender they want to play for, and round out the benches.

  • lakershater13

    I have to say I am sorry to big luke! I wanted the C’s to take stanley robinson with our second rounder. He has averaged just 4ppg and 4.5rpg. Luke has averaged 20.5ppg and 8rpg. I liked luke in college but didnt see him as an nba player. After watching him play the last two summer league games hes showing he can step out and knock down shots. Robinson may have been another kedrick brown. Super athletic but not much to offer in terms of basketball skill. Another solid second round pick from danny. Out of the summer league i can see the C’s signing up to 5 players. That may be a shock to some people but it could and probably will happen.

  • lakershater13

    I think it would be interesting if James leaves the Cavs and goes to another team. In reality i think he will resign and all this crap we have had to listen to would all be for nothing. Toronto is willing to trade Bosh to the cavs. This is kind of scary. One thing that is good about that is the Cavs would lose some quality players.

  • Zain

    @lakershater: Bosh doesn’t care much for going to cleveland, so that’s not a big deal. I don’t see Bosh landing there if Bron stays.

  • strips

    LoL@ green: ‘pull’ chris paul from under the table?! like he’s lebron’s chihuahua or something…

    that made my day right there…thanks

    seriously though, it could happen right? i mean lebron choosing the nets, not him pulling chris paul from under the table…

    then again i do think he’s just media-whoring…if he really wants that he should go to LA…

  • smblack

    Ok, the thought of Kwame Brown raises so many red flags initially but having a moment to think of it danny may be just covering all possibilities. The other options for back up center would be Brad Miller(maybe to expensive as we may need to use MLE for starting wing player if ray leaves and we may be priced out of the running as the chips fall after free agaecy bonanza)…Shaq (pick and roll D suspect and not sure he wants to be a backup….etc)…Jermaine O’neal(maybe a better option at the VM for a year or 2). Also the decision would have to be based on Perks recovery so if and when he comes back how does he fit into the rotation if the Team looks like this:

    Starters: PG. Rondo; SG. Ray/Mike Miller(if ray leaves via MLE); SF. PP; PF. KG; C. David Lee/Al Jefferson (via sign and trade…TA/pick + RW…etc)

    Back up: PG. Nate/Ridnour(if Affordable)&/or A. Bradley; SG. Rudy Fernandez(via trade…TA or pick+cash if necessary); SF. T Mac/Josh Howard(via VM); PF. BB &’Gody; C. Brad Miller(via MLE if not used & if unable to get D Lee/AJ)/J O’neal(via VM only)/ Kwame Brown????(only if Perk will be back by dec/jan fully recovered and therefore KB returns to shelden williams role).

    Some of these options not only cover us for the next year but also give us a foundation for the upcoming transition period without 1 or 2 of the big 3!

  • NHBluesMan

    Get Shaq, he honestly seems like the best option if we use him as a role player and not expect him to be the Shaq from 10 years ago.

    Also, he could teach Perk a thing or two about stronger post moves, get rid of all this crouch-and-gather crap and take it strong to the basket!!

  • Lakers fan also. Do not pass GO, do not sign Kwame Brown.

    It has nothing to do with his off-the-court issues, which are more ludicrous than they are something to worry about. It’s strictly on-the-court problems.

    Kwame’s strength is, quite literally, his strength. He has been called an all-Greyhound player (because he looks like he’d be great when he steps off the bus). He is immensely strong, with surprising lateral quickness–well, at least three years ago he had that quickness. These combine to make him a good man-to-man post defender.

    Unfortunately, that’s about it as far as his upside is concerned. He has small hands, and as Hollinger says, he rushes practically everything. He misses lay-ups by an average of one foot. This is not an exaggeration for effect. And it’s all nerves; by all accounts, he plays reasonably well in practice. It is possible that he could benefit from sessions with Ron Artest’s psychologist, but barring some mental breakthrough like that, he is the ultimate non-finisher at the rim. If it’s not an alley-oop at the rim (and even sometimes when it is), you simply cannot count on the bucket.

    I don’t think he’s that good of a rebounder. He’s OK on the defensive end, where his ability to box out helps him, but his instincts for the ball are not terribly sound, and I don’t think he’d get that many offensive boards as a result.

    There was a game during his Lakers tenure when he was booed vigorously by the home crowd, and his hangdog reaction was pathetic (in the classic sense of the word) to watch. That’d be less likely to happen if he were to sign with the Celtics, since they wouldn’t be counting on him as their first-line center (as he was with the Lakers), but the underlying reason for the booing–his inability to manage and control his play–isn’t going to just go away.

  • Shooter

    I still stand by my prediction: Wade,Bosh and LeBron team up in Miami.

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