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Notes on Ray, TA, Shaq to Start Your Week

 

Some brief notes on free agency:

• The Hawks have apparently agreed to offer Shaq their full mid-level exception, even though the value of the mid-level is not yet in place, according to FanHouse. (Hat tip: The less-than-enthused Hoopinion).  

If Shaq demands the full mid-level, Boston should pass. 

• A. Sherrod Blakely caught up with Danny Ainge and Doc Rivers at summer league in Orlando, and Ainge confirmed the team has initiated talks with Tony Allen:

Ainge acknowledged that Tony Allen, who played a critical role in Boston’s run towards the NBA Finals this past season, is also a player Boston has had discussions with about coming back.

“We just haven’t come to any agreement,” Ainge told CSNNE.com. “But yes, we’re talking with Tony.”

• Chris Tomasson of FanHouse, also at summer league, reports via Twitter that Boston has made an initial offer to Ray Allen. Years and dollars unknown, though that may not be the case by the time I wake up tomorrow. 

Here’s what Doc had to say today about Ray (via the Blakely link above):

“He wants to be a Celtic,” Rivers said. “The problem is, Ray has to do his business. He has to do his job. We’re just hoping that someone doesn’t come out and has so much money to offer, that he basically can’t turn it down.”

Good night, all. Hope you enjoyed the long weekend.

  • Cptn Bubbles

    We need a good, experienced big man badly. What should we do with the MLE? Prices have become inflated. Who do we think we could possibly get for the MLE…..now? Are we caught up in the fair market values of the past? It sounds a lot like the MLE (or more) is now the going rate for an experienced big or is there some miracle big man out there who is going to be good, effective, & take only part of the MLE ????? Looks like we are gonna end up with another Mikey Moore because he will be “affordable” instead of going all out for a big who can actually play the game.

  • Rich

    I gotta say..Shaq still will get you 10 points 7 rebounds, and shoot over 50% from the field while getting hard fouls. Simply because he’s a 7footer, he’s worth the MLE in my book.

  • Rich

    Let’s ask ourselves this….is Shaq not, even today, a better player than Amir Johnson?

  • inolongerhatemarquisdaniels(causehenolongerplays)

    i would like shaq to be a celtic

    sounds like ray isnt getting offered a whole lot

  • rob

    let’s be real here. Shaq as much i laughed at you when you took those ridiculous shots in the beginning of all those cleveland games to get the teams “post scoring” going i think we need him to rebound and to just draw fouls and do a little bit of scoring he still shoots a solid percentage.

  • Rich

    I mean it isn’t like Shaq is demanding the ball anymore. He is just out there. And against a lot of teams, he can simply muscle the guy guarding him right around the rim and dunk the ball. Those guys aren’t easy to find.

  • Cptn Bubbles

    Shaq is a BIG man. He knows what to expect, has high stress playoff experience, & can handle the physical play in the post. He could give us a post game where we have ZERO post game right now. During the regular season last year, he has great #s vs playoff teams, including the magic & the lake. He would be productive in a way which we just don’t have. I can go back & get his #s vs teams—much, much better #s than a Mikey Moore or some other affordable big could produce. Seriously, I’m not quite following who we are holding out for or who our main target is for an experienced big who is both competent & going to take only a portion of the MLE. Haven’t the times changed here? It sounds like we most of all want something CHEAP. It sounds like another Mikey Moore deal to me.

  • Shooter

    OMFG man what the hell is Rick Sund doin up there.1st he signs JJ to a ludicrously overpaid contract then offers a washed up 55 year old Shaq the full mid level.Shaq isn’t worth the full mid level and i can’t see him having any sort of impact there in Atlanta where they like to get out and run.Not to mention they already have Horford and Pachulia.Oh well,glad i’m not a Hawks fan.
    They barely beat the Bucks without their best player Bogut and got beaten SO BAD by Orlando it was funny.So basically they plan on playing with the same roster for next season, for what?
    Anywho, the MLE value on the market is becoming mere pocket change and losing it’s power to impact a team by the day.

  • NHBluesMan

    at first i hated the idea, but the more i think about it, the more i like it… Shaq in kelly green.

    We don’t need him to be the Shaq of old, we need him to do what Perk does, muscle other bigs, get rebounds, and anything over double digit points is gravy. Then, once Perk is healthy, rotating between those two guys would give us great strength down low.

    Plus, then Shaq could maybe retire as part of the greatest franchise of all time ;-)

    I really hope we bring back TA. I heard the Lakers are interested in him, and i’d hate to see that happen. But business is business, however, since we have his Bird Rights i don’t think the C’s will let him go.

  • Jay P

    I don’t want to see us spend the full MLE on Shaq, he’s not worth it.

    I’d still take Brad Miller over Shaq, but that ones kinda a wash anyway. We do need a presence to clog the middle, and clear space, since Perk is out. Shaq can do that as well as anyone else out there.

    I’m not thrilled about spending a full MLE on him, but with the current market, I’d take it. Even at his age, he still has more of a post game than Perk does, and he’s still a tough guy to guard for 99% of teams, the only teams even last year that could really stop him was Orlando and Boston (Howard and Perk.) Noone else has the size to keep him off his spots, and once he gets position, you either foul him, or get the hell out of the way.

  • Cptn Bubbles

    @NHBluesMan Likewise, I hated the idea of Shaq, but it looks like it may be the best option that we have. Also, I agree with you about TA. Despite what some think, the lake are not stupid. The mere fact that the lake are after TA speaks volumes to me.

    Since I’ve read more rumors today about a possible C interest in the Shaq, here are some #s I looked up on him from last season….

    Before, I was totally against this, but now that the Cs did not draft a center & the summer team centers look raw, we are running out of options. Depending on the price Shaq might be a better idea than what I previously thought. We need someone Andrew Bynum ***BIG*** who could bang with Bynum or Dwight or Gasol or Bogut & battle them in the paint.

    During the season
    Shaq avg’d 12ppg at 57% 7rebs 1block in 23 min-That’s pretty good!!!

    What I was really interested in was how he did vs the lake:

    gm1 @Lake in 22min 5-8 63% 7rebs (2 Off) ….Bynum went 2-5 Gasol 4-10

    gm2 @Clev in 28min 5-9 56% 1steal 1block 6rebs 3assists …Bynum went 3-5 Gasol 5-14

    These points & this higher shooting percentage (vs our lower, team-wide jump shot percentage) came from a POST UP GAME DOWN LOW which is something we don’t have at all—And Shaq is a good passer out of the post when double teamed (Ray in the corner or Paul cutting). I would take those numbers vs the lake in a heart beat or would we rather go with Shelden & his numbers???

    Here is what Shaq did vs Dwight & the magicians….

    gm1 @Orl 20min 4-8 5rebs 1assist 2blocks….Dwight 3-3 with only 7rebs

    gm2 @Cavs 19min 5-9 6rebs 1block….Dwight 6-9 11rebs

    gm3 @Orl 31min 9-10!!! 2blocks 5rebs 1assist …scored 2 less pts than Dwight playing 44min.

    How about Shaq vs those pesky Hawks:
    @Atl 26min 5-7 8rebs ….Horford 3-7
    @Cavs 20min 4-9 5rebs 3assists 1 block

    Then I wondered about Bogut & the deer:
    gm1 @deer 15min 5-9…Bogut 3-11
    gm2 @cavs 17min 4-6 1block 6rebs 1assist….Bogut was 2-7

    Many people are totally forgetting about Andrew Bogut & the deer. Who do we have to play Bogey?

    I think Shaq could give us 20-28min & be productive vs the teams we are likely to face in the post season. He definitely has exp. & has played in multiple finals. Some people complain about his free throws, rightfully so, BUT the flip side is that the other team’s bigs are getting in foul trouble when they foul him so much. This is a HUGE plus when the bigs from the enemy are sitting on the bench in foul trouble– no way they can score or rebound sitting on that bench.

    Looking at the current market & what players are getting…..Hello Amir Johnson, Drew Gooden, all the interest Brad Miller is getting etc. It looks like we are going to have to pay more to get somebody WHO CAN ACTUALLY PLAY & give us some minutes.

    Look at how we spent this money:
    Quis 1.99mil
    Scal 3.4mil
    Shelden 0.825mil
    Now compare that money & production to Shaq’s #s
    Shaq avg’d 12ppg at 57% 7rebs 1block in 23 min last season.

    We REALLY REALLY REALLY NEED a ****CENTER**** to be a bully in the lane & get us some rebounds. I’m tired of watching other teams disrespect us in the lane & crash the glass for tons of offensive boards.

  • Celticjay

    If Shaq can’t run up & down the court with the younger big men in the league it wont matter how tough he is.

    You can’t rebound from midcourt. I agree when the game slows down in the playoffs and matchups mean more he could be helpful.

    Keep in mind…. Cleveland basicly played themselves out of the postseason by leaving Shaq & Ilgauskis in there to play center insteafd of Varejeau & Hickson.

  • Jeff

    I can’t see Danny letting TA go anywhere…especially not LA. They will match WHATEVER the Lake are going to offer. LA may be doing that just to try and get Boston to overpay, knowing they’ll never let the best and closest thing to a “Kobe stopper” in the NBA, go anywhere.

    LA would love to get him on their team so that they could rest easier about their little patsy boy not shooting 25% each night while making $30 mil. LOSER!

    As for Shaq, I’m all in on him even if it does cost full MLE. We can give him a 3 year deal with the third year as a mutual option at the MLE, or if he’d accept $3.5 that’d be good because we could sign Brad Miller with the rest and use Sheed to get a couple wings.

    I also would love the idea of $$$ and a pick to POR for Rudy.

    Maybe do that then send Sheed somewhere for another wing player, and try to get Gomes at the Vet’s min. I haven’t heard any news on him getting many offers. He’d be a smart addition by Danny to add length, shooting, defense, and smarts as well as great character to the locker room. I’ve always liked Gomes.

    If Danny can pull off a few of these moves, were in great shape!

    If he can pull all of them…we’ve got Champ written on our jersey’s already!

  • I love Green

    If we get Shaq, do you guys think he’d want to be on the bench behind Perkins?

  • morey grundmaN

    Get Shaq, I think he would be a great addition to our club, if motivated he can be every bit a dominate player he was 10 years ago, if motivated?

  • NHBluesMan

    @I love green: Perk will be back by December at the earliest, but thats not a guaranteed 100% healthy Perk. We can easily rotate the two of them, have each guy start some games and basically split the time. And i think Shaq really wants another ring, so he’d be willing to share some time once Perk is fully healthy again.

    @morey grundmaN: theres not much better motivation than another ring, ESPECIALLY the chance to win it against Kobe. I don’t think he’ll be as dominant as he was 10 years ago, but he’d give us the defensive presence Perk would, and some more offense as well.

    The more i think about it, really, the more i like the idea of getting Shaq, especially since Doc is back and the other Boston vets can keep him in line

  • Jay P

    @NHBluesMan

    There’s nothing to “keep in line” Shaq has openly said he has no problem coming off the bench if need be. He still considers himself starting talent (and he might be, his numbers are pretty good.) But he’s a veteran who will do what it takes to win.

    The scariest thing to me is the Pick and Roll problems. It’s going to put a LOT of pressure on the rest of Boston’s D to be able to recover in the pick and roll, because Shaq is awful in hedging in recovering, really awful, like, one of the worst ever.

    So that means someone from the interior has to step up, cut off the lane, then rotate to contest the shot to give Shaq time to recover and get back to his man. You don’t have to the ability to play the pick and roll man to man, like you do when KG covers it, since he’s probably one of the best ever at hedging and recovering back to his man.

    Boston’s help defense will be put to the ultimate test if Shaq ever wears green.

  • http://www.truecloud.com Dave

    Shaq at his best, was never a great defender.

    But he takes up space in the middle better than any other player in the game and that’s a very underrated factor when it comes to defense.

    He’s also going to fit in with this Celtic group and Doc. Shaq like the other members of the big three, knows how to win, how to deliver a big play with the game on the line.

    And just like the other members of the big three, he never backs down from any situation.

    He has a ton of pride and will give the supreme effort playing for a team like the Celtics.

    I think it would be a great fit, especially since it isn’t clear at all that Kendrick will be able to return to making the same contribution as he was making before, until the following season.

    As far as the MLE, there just isn’t any reason for Shaq to settle for less than that when there are other contender teams that could use his services at that price, just as easily as the Celtics could.

  • Coolin

    If they offer TA a penny more than he made last year than that will be an awful deal. I would like to bring in someone/anyone over him. His offense is just too bad to have on a team that needs some scoring out of this position. Why oh why did Boston let Bill Walker go instead of TA.

  • Cptn Bubbles

    @Celticjay

    It is true that Shaq is no spring chicken. He will not be running the floor with Rajon on offense, but what we need is a bigs stopper on D who can block a shot or rebound & start the break with a nice pass to Rajon.

    First, let’s look @ Shaq vs da Bulls in the post season. I think da Bulls are a relevant post season team which the Cs could face.

    gm1: 25min 5-9 3blocks 5rebs 4assists
    gm 2: 15min(foul trouble) 2-4 7rebs 1assist….7rebs vs Noah in 15min is pretty good
    gm 3: 20min 2-8 2blocks 4rebs 1assist
    gm 4: 17min(foul trouble) 3-7 1block 7rebs…again 7rebs vs Noah in 17min is good
    gm 5: 26min 7-9 1steal 1block 8rebs 3assists

    I was surprised by the assists. He had 1 game where he really struggled shooting, but he continued to rebound & block shots.

    Now, on to our beloved Cs.

    Is Shaq the primary reason the Cavs lost? Or was it an underwhelming lebron? Was it bad coaching? Was it the alien abduction of Antwan Jamison leaving only his body behind? Was it the poor shooting/play from the Cavs back court???

    Or was it really all about the Cs? Their D? Their heart? Didn’t the Cs bring the D vs D Wade & Dwight?

    Shaq vs Cs:
    gm1:20min 4-12 (Our D?) 4rebs
    gm2: 19min 4-10(Our D?) 4rebs 1assist
    gm3: 23min 5-7(better looks) 9rebs 2assists
    gm4: 28min 5-9 7-11free throws 2blocks 5rebs
    gm5: 27min 7-11 7-10free throws 1steal 4blocks 4rebs 2assists
    gm6: 24min 4-7 4rebs 1assist

    Considering how great our Defense was in the playoffs I don’t think Shaq played that badly vs us after the first 2 games. He does absolutely have trouble with pick & role D, but every player out there has some amount of trouble with pick & role. Can Doc scheme around it? Would the multiple good things which Shaq brings make up for the pick & roll D?

    Actually, how many times did we play great pick & roll D & not get the rebound? What good is our primary D if we are constantly allowing the other team’s big to offensive rebound???? Any player we get is going to have strengths & weaknesses. If we are thinking title we have to get somebody who can play D & rebound vs Dwight & Bogut & eventually Gasol & Bynum.

    He is clearly not the Shaq of old, but we are not looking for someone to play 40min & be the go to guy. We are looking for Perk like minutes & someone who can take a hit or shove in the lane & not give up position like Mikey Moore. Shaq is not the best center, but he may be the best we can get. Who else is available at center who we could afford & has decent stats vs playoff teams?

  • Jay P

    Walker was awful defensively, and average offensively.

    Please stop looking at his New York numbers and say he’s great, anyone will put up numbers in D’antoni’s “7 seconds or less” system.

    TA is still a pretty good slasher, can score at the rim, and is very, very good defensively. I’d take him over BIll Walker any day of the week.

  • Coolin

    @ Jay P: Walker is 21 years old and on the rise in his career. While TA is like 30 and sucks big time, always has and always will. The guy can barely even make layups let alone a jump shot from anywhere on the floor. I need something more than okay defense and atrocious offense. I promise you it will be a mistake that the C’s let Bill go.

  • Shooter

    Yeah, Bill Walker’s stats in D’Inflation’s system were….well yeah….inflated.He was a terrible defender and an average offensive player.I would have preferred we kept Giddens but neither of them were going o impact our team now or in the future.

  • Shooter

    @Coolin, i promise you it would have been a mistake if we had kept him.

  • NHBluesMan

    @Coolin, TA is better than an ‘okay’ defender. He’s the one of the only player in the league who can come close to shutting down Kobe. The Lakers want him, because they know this is a FACT.

  • dont_drink_the_koolaid

    i think shaq is as good as perk – a bit better on O, a bit worse on D.

    i also think he would fit very well with this team. rondo likes to penetrate but not finish, and kg likes to drop out for the midrange J.

    but i’m getting very worried about all these longterm deals to vets…..it will come back to bite danny in the ass.

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