Post-game Reactions

I haven’t had time to delve deeply into the Ray Allen-Kevin Martin rumors, but others have done a fine job discussing them.

Start here and here for the views of Tom Ziller, author of the Kings blog Sactown Royalty and a writer for NBA Fanhouse. Ziller is a longtime Martin fan (from the days before the stat gurus made Martin a cult foul-drawing icon) and he says the C’s would be making a great deal in any Allen-Martin trade….

One interesting nugget Ziller addresses: How Martin’s deal would look in, say, 2012, if the owners get their way and a new collective bargaining agreement limits maximum player salaries to a fraction (two-thirds? three-quarters?) of what they are now and imposes a hard (or harder, at least) salary cap. Martin is scheduled to make $11.5 million in 2012 and $12.5 million the next season, according to the indispensable (literally) ShamSports.com. Ziller concludes that Martin’s deal may make him overpaid under the terms of the (theoretical) new CBA, but not wildly so.

The same cannot be said for the C’s other would-be trade target (and Brendan Jackson fave), Andre Iguodala.

Iggy’s in the middle of a monster escalating deal that peaks with a $15.9 million player option in 2014. (To put it more accurately: Iguodala has an early termination option for that season, meaning he can opt out of the final year—and give up that $15.9 million salary—to become a free agent. Even speaking four years in advance, I’m comfortable saying there’s next to no chance Iggy opts out of $15.9 million unless the Sixers name Allen Iverson GM between now and then).

Paul Flannery, writing at WEEI.com, takes a thorough look at both Martin and Iggy and concludes, rightly, that any deal for either of these guys is exceedingly complicated. (Flannery also says Martin’s defense might be an issue). The Celtics have not even been linked to the Iggy trade talks (the Suns are dominating those at the moment), and they would almost certainly have to take on Sam Dalembert’s deal in order to nab Iggy. They’re not going to do that.

As for the Kings, Ziller and Flannery both point out that Sacto wants more than the cap relief Ray’s $19M expiring deal will give them after this season; they want a young big, since Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes continue to develop in fits and starts. Obviously, Boston is not dealing Perk. So if the Kings stick to that demand, a third team would have to get involved. And how many teams out there have a talented young (and available) big man more reliable than Thompson or Hawes? The Kings won’t want Amare Stoudemire, especially if he’s serious about opting in on his massive extension next year instead of becoming a free agent. Ty Thomas, still brimming with something resembling “potential,” is not really a significant ¬†upgrade (if he’s an upgrade at all) over Hawes and Thompson.

I’m sticking to my original view: Ray is staying, like it or not.

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Zach Lowe

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  • Sam

    I think he is staying as well. If we do make move it will be minor, Not something major, we’re not going get back what Allen can, does, and has given us.

  • Cptn Bubbles

    If you’re talking about that kind of money, why not spend 100,000 more & go after Mike Miller from the Wiz. He is a much better shooter, rebounder, assist man, team player…He is more aerodynamic & faster now too since he got rid of all that hair. 56% FG 52% 3 pt line. 6’8 w/ 6 boards per game…. They could throw in Brendan Haywood so we would have a tough 7′ to help wear down Shaq, Dwight, etc. Brendan is a beast. He just needs a coach like Doc. KG is too lean & lanky for that kind of duty. Perk only has so many fouls. Sheed seems disinterested in the post.

  • Zack

    Some variation of this trade?
    Although I’d love to get rid of Sheed and just give his minutes to Sheldon, Baby, anyone really but Sheldon the most.

  • That’s a pretty damn well-researched and well-thought-out trade, Zack. I’d have to see whether Sacto has the roster room to do a 2-for-1 deal on their end.

    The Bulls might (would, actually) ask for a sweetener here, and the Kings likely would also, because Martin for Thomas isn’t a fair deal, even given the cap implications. But this is getting there.

  • Cptn Bubbles

    IF Ray was to be traded I would hate to see him in the post season. He would be out for blood and would score at least fitty per game. I’m already DREADING the Leon Powe, or according to Phil Jackson ‘Powell’, game. It is going to be very, very hard.

    Look at the seething hatred Joe Johnson has for the Cs. It is personal. It is vengeance.

    The Wiz need a guy who is an outstanding citizen & would be very active in the community to repair their image. I don’t think Ray is packin’ a gat with the ratta tat tat.

  • GranTur

    Joe Johnson doesn’t hate the Celtics. Actually he recently hinted that he would like to play with the Celtics.

  • colincb

    I don’t think Zack’s trade does much for SAC. CHI should have enough cap relief to be OK and be rid of Thomas, but BOS would have to send a 1st to SAC to make this deal have a chance. I just can’t see Ty Thomas being wanted by any one unless they can afford to tell him to not show up. He’s that toxic and there are no Al Davis-like owners in the NBA.

  • Zack


    This is a much bigger trade but does it work better?
    I checked the kings roster and it looks like they have 15 so it would have to be even (my other trade doesn’t exactly work). Chicago gets expiring contracts and gets rid of some of the longer ones, Sacramento gets some players with upside and the C’s get some new younger players. JR can be swapped with Sheldon for some size for the Kings.

  • Zack

    @colincb makes a good point. 1st round picks can be swapped or thrown in, but i’d really like to give up our 1st rounder and get someone elses 2nd back. I trust Danny with 2nd rounders and they’d be nearly as high as our 1st rounders.
    I like Ty Thomas as a player, he is young, really athletic and has a good shot around the free throw line and can at times play good D. I agree about the headcase aspect of his game and I’d almost think that the C’s could really use him because he is more what we need (except having him and sheed violates Simmons “only 1 head case per team” rule and could cause an explosion in the Garden).

  • Cptn Bubbles

    I’ve heard about Joe’s dislike of the Cs multiple times. The last time was when the Cs were playing the Hawks in Atlanta, & they were doing the pregame show with the 3 man weave. The guest was a very articulate Atlanta sportswriter/guru (sorry, can’t think of his name right now) who said he has asked Joe on multiple occasions why he plays so well vs the Cs. It sounded like hatred, but maybe it is just intense anger over being let go.

  • Cptn Bubbles

    Anybody see this article on TrueHoop? http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/?p=419

    It talks about a method Doc should use for resting the starters.

  • dont_drink_the_koolaid

    – ray will be gone by the deadline

    – don’t like martin

    a very simple deal that fits what both teams are trying to achieve: ray+sheed for dalembert+iguodala


    6ers dump the 2 major contracts, Celts get THE MAN and an upgrade inside. Cs maybe sweeten with 2nd round pick or cash.

    no one is going to take dalenmbert with iggy without giving some junk back so i think this is reasonable. everyone wins.

    iggy! iggy! iggy! iggy! iggy! iggy!

  • ssspence

    gang, any Martin trade is going to require taking back and bad contract, right? Nocioni, Udrih, Garcia — one of em. This is the reason a 3-team deal with the Bulls and the Kings likely won’t work — both of these teams want to ditch a contract (Hinrich or Salmons for the Bulls). The Cs aren’t taking back both Nocioni AND Hinrich to get Martin.

    Would the Bulls be happy to get Ray Allen in exchange for Ty Thomas and expirings? Maybe. But not before doing everything they can to dump Salmons or Hinrich with him first (which isn’t going to happen).

  • I love Green


    Suns get a couple expiring contracts, and a big man. We get 2 good guards, one who would play great with Rondos fast break style. The 76ers get a lot better of a big man but a worse guard. So the Suns and Celts would probably have to give them a draft pick each. I personally would like to do this trade

  • dont_drink_the_koolaid

    I love Green, I like you.

    I’d take that in second. But no way the suns make that deal (unless they are in financial ruin and haven’t told anyone), and even philly would not be happy about getting rid of dalmbert’s contract, only to get back JRich

  • ssspence

    Per my post above, this is the only scenario in which I can imagine landing Martin BECAUSE we take a rhetorical, bad contract off of their books — they have way too many swing players, and two with awful deals — and get them a decent asset in Thomas.


    If the Bulls finally figure out how poor the market is for Thomas and Hinrich, they’ll decide to ship Thomas out on his own. What better asset are they going to get than Ray Allen? Best case right now they get a late first — I’d rather have Allen the rest of the year, and his Bird Rights this summer.

  • I love Green

    Suns are trying to dump contracts. Which is why they would get the expiring ones. Ray Tony and Dalambert, I think, are only a slight downgrade from Barbosa, Jason, and Amare. Plus they get 2 expiring contracts while dumping 2 big ones. So I think they would do it. 76ers get Amare who is an upgrade from Dalembert, and JRich is a downgrade from Iggy so we sweeten it with 2 number 1 draft picks, or a 1 and 2.

  • Coyote

    It doesn’t matter where I go. Anybody talking trades on any fan website for any team. You’re all insane. I have to give you guys props though. You’re very polite to one another. But what on god’s green earth are you talking about. I hate this time of year. People loes their minds. For intance Amare and Ray both have expiring contracts. Oh, I don’t even know where to start. I’ve never seen anything so convoluted. I’m not talking trash. I just think it’s hysterical. Hysterical which meens both funny and nuts. Peace.

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