Logo
Browse Archives by:

Track Records For Aging Shooting Guards and Ray Allen

 

raybuzzzerRay Allen wants a contract extension after his megadeal expires at the end of this season, when he will earn nearly $19 million. Ray is 34 now and will by 35 in July 2010, when the Celtics would, in theory, be negotiating a new deal. That is old by NBA standards, and we’ve seen small signs that Walter Ray’s body has begun aging over the last few seasons. He’s had multiple ankle injuries, a minor elbow tweak last season and an uncooperative hamstring that bothered him against Orlando in the post-season. Nothing serious, but evidence that Allen’s body is suffering from the wear and tear that comes with playing nearly 40,000 NBA minutes (regular and post-season). 

So it’s fair to ask: Should the Celtics sign Allen to an extension? What about a multi-year extension? One part of answering this question is to look at the career arcs of similar players and see how badly they declined after age 35. Using the archives on Basketball Reference, I searched for every NBA player since 1979-80 (when the league introduced the three-point shot) who averaged at least five three-point attempts and 13 overall field-goal attempts per game in an individual season. Allen’s been right at those numbers since arriving in Boston (and well above them before), and I assumed some of the players with this sort of attempt distribution would be similar to Walter Ray—that is, they would be long-range sharpshooters who did much more than just shoot threes. 

The players who appeared most on this list fell into two categories: 1) Shooting guards with heavy offensive loads; 2) Poing guard chuckers, i.e. Tim Hardaway and Baron Davis. It is the first category we’re most interested in. 

Of that group, five retirees appear more than anyone else: Reggie Miller (7 seasons), Glen Rice (5) Vernon Maxwell (4),  Mitch Richmond (3) and Steve Smith (2). Of those, only Reggie Miller offers a hopeful health history.  The other four guys—Richmond, Smith, Maxwell and Rice—all fell off dramatically in their mid-30s, and none of them lasted in the league past the age of 36. All of them suffered nagging knee injuries that hurt their ability to run around screens, hang in on defense and get the proper lift on jump shots. 

(Side note: Ray appears on this list 10 times, easily the most of any player ever. Peja Stojakovic is on there six times, and his game has fallen off a cliff at age 32).

A 35-year-old Richmond played just 37 games for the Wizards in 2001 due to knee injuries, and he barely played at all the next season with the Lakers—his last in the league.

Rice’s right knee went out in his first season with Houston (2002, when he turned 34), though his PER had slipped below league average a year earlier with the Knicks. Rice was never the same player after having surgery on that knee, and the Clippers waived him 18 games into the 2004 season. He never played in the league again.

Vernon Maxwell never averaged more than 10.7 points per game after turning 32, and he suffered a string of knee injuries starting at that age in 2000. He was out of the league at 35.

Steve Smith’s minutes per game declined from 29 in 2002 (when he was 32) to 20 in 2003 and just 13 in 2004, when he averaged just 5.0 points per game. Knee tendinitis and a back strain pushed him out of the league in 2005, also at age 35.

Obviously, none of these players is Ray Allen, and every player’s injury history is the result of some unique combination of body type, personal fitness and health, luck and age. And there are few players, if any, who work as diligently as Ray to keep themselves in shape and maintain consistency in their games. 

Still, age is a part of the equation, and Ray is clearly hitting the point at which his game will decline. The Celtics have to ask the question: How quickly will it decline? And if it does, can Ray adjust in some way and remain a productive player? 

Because the track record of similar players suggests that offering Ray anything but a one-year deal would be a risk. 

But Reggie Miller offers us hope. A brief look at him and some additional thoughts on Ray, after the jump.I had honestly forgotten how durable Reggie Miller was until I refreshed my memory a couple nights ago. The guy played at least 81 games in 10 of his 18 seasons in the league, and only in his final season, at age 39, did he miss more than 10 games. Ray has a similar record of durability; he didn’t miss a game until his 6th season, when he missed 12, and he didn’t miss a significant amount again until 2007, when he had surgery to remove bone spurs from both ankles. Rice and Richmond had similarly sunny injury histories before their bodies started breaking down at Ray’s age, but the fact remains that Ray has missed just 12 games in two seasons with the Celtics. 

Miller also remained a productive player until his retirement. He shot 40 percent from three-point range at age 38, never played fewer than 28.6 minutes per game in any season and recorded an above average PER (16.6) in his last season with the Pacers. (No wonder Danny Ainge tried to lure him to Boston for a shot at a ring in 2008). 

Miller was still chucking, too. He attempted 12.3 shots per 36 minutes in his final season, essentially the same per-minute number he recorded in 2005 and just about two fewer attempts/36 than he tossed up in his prime. 

And best of all, he changed his game in his final season, when he could no longer hit the three (he shot just 32 percent from deep). He took twice as many foul shots per game that season than the prior year and ended up averaging nearly five more points per game—14.8, up from 10.0. That is really, really impressive stuff from a 39-year-old guy. 

Ray will have to make some adjustment in order to remain a productive player as he ages. What that adjustment is uncertain. Does he become merely a spot-up shooter instead of someone who curls around screens, feints on the perimeter and occasionally creates a mid-range shot off the dribble? Does he try and get to the line more? 

If the Celtics believe Ray can adapt to his age, an extension might be worth the risk. But don’t kid yourselves—any deal longer than one year is a risk.

  • Alexx

    I love Ray Allen, but I think after his contract expires they need to make a move in free agency to bring in a younger superstar. If we can get a young superstar at the 2, along with rondo we can have a smooth transition into the text generation of Celtics stars.

  • Steve

    Pretty sure that with Pierce, KG, and Rondo's new deal we'll still be over the cap and not be bringing any "young stars" in next year. I wouldn't mind a 2-3 yr. deal for Ray. If he declines he'd be a nice expiring contract in a trade.

  • Pingback: Today’s Celtics Links 9/15 | Boston Sports Nation

  • http://Aol.com Matthew

    With no money for a superstar (keep dreaming..crack head), and no available players who can do what ray does…I aT the smart thing to do is (if he is healthy) offer a two year deal with a team option for a third. Obviously it's up to ray to accept a pay cut. He's probably in the range of 7-10 million dollar player. Resigning rondo and pierce is a priority along with keeping youthfull talent.

    I just don't see how the celtics can find some one who does what ray does experience and production wise. Not to mention a great unselfish hardworking teammate and great person. Fact is there is only one walter ray Allen. Guys like him don't exist anymore. Sign him and be done with it danny. Ray kg pierce perk and rondo should all remain celtics till retirement. Toss in some youth and count your rings. I'm guessing atleast 3.

  • Pingback: The 10-man rotation, starring Jordan’s missing years | Sports News Images and Videos

  • Pingback: The 10-man rotation, starring Jordan’s missing seasons | Sports News Images and Videos

  • Timmy

    I know this might sound slightly off-key since you're talking about SGs who chucked 5 3's a game, remember there was a fellow by the name of Michael Jordan, whom if I'm not wrong, let the Bulls to their 6th championship at the at of 35 in '98. It's pretty remarkable for someone 35 to lead his team as the no.1 offensive option. So I'm pretty sure Ray can hold it up, though MJ didn't have any major surgeries at the end of his career. Just a thought, coz I totally respect Ray's career and how he's maintained his cool in the Celtic's championship run when he couldn't hit a shot in the Eastern Finals and totally ripped up Lakers with the barrage of 3's in the Finals. He is still productive.

  • RTroy

    Giving Ray a two year deal with a third being a team option is the way the Celtics should go here. Ray Allen has shown very few signs of breaking down. Who scored 51 points against Chicago in the playoffs and kept them in the series in other games? Sure, he had a hamstring problem at the end of the year. Couldn't that have been more from playing too many minutes time and again to

    keep the Celtics alive? Look at the minutes played in the last two years, I bet Ray is at the top. I can see Ray, in his last years, coming off the bench, with a second unit, and being

    the sharp shooter they need. Don't think for a minute he is looking for another mega deal, it just won't happen. But, he retires a Celtic for sure.

  • http://www.cassavaleaf.com/ CassavaLeaf

    Ray Allen is one of the greatest players over the past 10 years and I would venture to say the best Husky in Calhoun's era.

    He has bounced around a bit (Milwaukee, Seattle & Boston) and probably will not get his jersey retired like his teammates, Pierce in Boston and Garnett in Minnesota.

    Do you think he is HOF worthy?

  • sully00

    It wouldn't make a ton of sense to invest $20 mil in a 35 year old in decline and then get all concerned about age in a guy whose performance has remained excellent. In the end it depends on what Ray wants, how many years? 15 mil for 1, 20 for 2, or 26 for 3.

  • Still enjoying #17

    I agree. 2 yr deal with an option for a 3rd year. Retire him a Celtic and add himto our stable of stars…retire him a Celtic. he represents what the Celtics are all about. I also like the idea if he does start to decline, put him on the 2nd team. It'll be a Boston 3 party on other teams 2nd units.

    Bombs Away!

  • Pingback: Give Me The Rock » Blog Archive » Percentages

  • Pingback: The Corner Three and the Adaptability of Ray » Boston Celtics Basketball – Celtics news, rumors and analysis – CelticsHub.com

  • Pingback: Saturday Notebook: Ray’s Gettin’ Old, C’s Feed the Pig, Remembering the Legend » Boston Celtics Basketball – Celtics news, rumors and analysis – CelticsHub.com

  • http://shooter-game.net Shooter

    I really enjoyed reading your interesting yet very informative insight. In the book of life every page has two sides: we human beings fill the upper side with our plans, hopes and wishes, but providence writes on the other side, and what it ordains is seldom our goal. Thank you for sharing and I am looking forward to reading more of your very current blog postings!!! :D Shooter Game

  • http://akrasiac.org/rachel/ rax

    “Ray has missed just 12 games in two seasons with the Celtics”

    Do you mean three seasons, or was there a season where he missed a lot of games due to injury and I’ve forgotten? (You mention 2007, but I’m pretty sure that was the 2006-2007 season, not 2007-2008 with the Celtics; if I’m wrong, that would explain it.)

  • Pingback: Ray guards | TylerStales

  • http://pornstarsbook.net/sasha-grey sasha grey

    The Celtics' conversion from losers to champs began in June 2007, when coming off a 24-win season, they traded for Allen, which in turn persuaded Kevin Garnett to accept a trade to Boston. That turnaround should serve as a model to the Celtics' ambitious rivals in this otherwise sorry division. The Atlantic is home to four of the eight largest TV markets in North America, and over the NBA's initial 40 years, 22 championships were won by Boston, Philadelphia and New York. But the Knicks and the 76ers have been woeful over the last decade, squandering their abundant resources on exorbitant contracts for mediocre sasha grey talent. "There's never been a consistency in who runs the ship," Allen says of the impatience of Boston's rivals in the Atlantic, "so it's been hard to keep a consistent model."

  • http://www.mufaclan.com/ Clan of MUFA,Game Online, Point Blank Indonesia, MufaClan.com, mufa, clan, game, online, shoot, head

    Nice post. I used to be checking constantly this blog and I’m impressed! Extremely useful information specially the final part :) I handle such info much. I was seeking this certain info for a long time. Thanks and best of luck.

no prescription xenical bupropion tab zithromax 500 mg pfizer viagra on line buy deltasone online cipro in south africa purchase viagra without a prescription levitra website orlistat price discount cialis online cialis online us paxil lexapro cheap cialis in uk canadian propecia buy cipro in usa cheap viagra no prescription generic levitra canada viagra tab generic levitra mastercard natural alternative to paroxetine buying viagra from india purchase discount cialis buy prednisone online without a prescription lowest cost levitra best and cheapest viagra pills cialis pricing nolvadex price no prescription how to order cialis online celebrex price where to buy cialis cheap non prescription generic cialis top selling herbal viagra cialis discount overnight viagra sales in uk alternative paxil genuine cialis online viagra online stores online rx diflucan buy cheap generic viagra zithromax dosing how much is accutane cialis com purchase cytotec online azithromycin cheapest cheapest viagra online online pharmacies uk amoxicillin canada diflucan buy daily cialis online accutane oklahoma viagra cheap canada viagra discount sales purchase viagra in uk buy amoxicillin online xenical pharmacy ordering levitra buying viagra online legal cheap authentic viagra one day shipping amoxil side effects viagra how to buy cialis online best best price celebrex generic cialis lowest price buy cialis in canada us cialis propecia mexico online prescription viagra azithromycin purchase online cheap cialis online without a persciption cialis order on line dose amoxicillin levitra canadian cialis canada 5mg celebrex cost australia azithromycin 500 mg viagra online sale buy levitra in europe wellbutrin online pharmacy viagra canada pharmacies order nolvadex viagra professional pfizer cymbalta australia for sale buy online purchase viagra flagyl buy generic cymbalta 20mg wellbutrin online prescription cialis online american internet viagra pharmacy buy cipro online cheap viagra pill viagra approved viagra buy usa side effects for zithromax viagra 25 mg canadian pharmacy cheap generic viagra cipro generic 100mg of paxil real cialis pharmacies herbal alternative to lasix order viagra in canada cipro xr bayer discount clomid levitra online sales cheap levitra prescription cialis brand approved cialis cheap viagra discount generic viagra professional viagra pfizer 50 mg female viagra europe furosemide 40mg tab